DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

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DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Flare on Sun May 06, 2012 5:54 pm

Object of this topic : Rant about your last game, and ask for tips to avoid needing to rant again.
Why ? Dont want to pollute the tips topics with rants, and dont want to make lots of rant topics and the general DOTA2 topic has been locked so...


I like to comment ( rant / rage / whine / bitch ) after bad matches... it makes me feel a bit better and opens up an oppertunity to take advice from you guys to avoid that mistake.

My rant today is about the matchmaking, DOTA2 solo matching is about ups and downs...the issue is the ups a huge and the downs give the devil vertigo staring into the depths. One match you are slaughtering the enemy so much you feel sad for them...then you meet a pro team who has fun kicking noobs asses hard.

I tried Skeleton King and was ripped a new one by a Morph who clearly has more than a few matches under his belt while my team was still working out what click to begin meant.
I then had a match as Veno and the enemy team was beaten quiet soundly... I didnt even need to do anything to be honest.
I then tried Leshrac , was forced to middle and was against a Natures Prophet who was CLEARLY very comfortable playing dota, not missing any last hits and denying me so hard... he had over 200 that match to my 49, it didnt help his teammate with the same clan tag was clearly a very experienced roaming ganker... and the Riki was very comfortable with his hero...these guys shouldnt of been matched with players at my level.

One of two things will happen with DOTA2 when it launches, either Valve will make extreme changes to the game mechanics to make it noob friendlier, or the game will die out .... Valve wont support it if it doesnt pull in the numbers to make the shop portion viable.
Noobs will pile in from LoL ( and HoN) , get thier arses kicked royally by smurfing assholes , then get trolled badly at the official dota forums... then declare the game horrible and return to LoL ( HoN)... then Valve will open up a real official DOTA2 forum, and start removing the harsh skill cieling by taking out mechanics... first will be to remove the deny mechanic, then the gold penalty, add in a boost to exp if your level is x lower than the average... in short noobify the game.

... will actually teach the playdota trolls and noob stomping smurf dicks a lesson in a way, no more hardcore dota2...they can always fire up the WC3 engine again I suppose...or go play HoN.

How do you guys learn anything solo matchmaking ? I mean each time I try a new hero I seem to get matched with noob stompers who make the experience with that hero so nasty I dont even want to fire up DOTA2 , let alone play that hero again.
Sometimes keeping an eye on your stats is not a good thing :P

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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Aceo on Sun May 06, 2012 5:58 pm

The thing about MM engines is that they take time to get you/others at the right level. They don't instantly adjust after a match or two.
Mostly from solo matchmaking I learn how to not punch walls...


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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Trell on Sun May 06, 2012 11:33 pm

I'm surprised my mouse isn't broken from the amount of times I've slammed it down in anger on my desk whilst solo matchmaking. I should have learnt by now to wait until Salva or literally anyone else is on, but I don't, and I end up getting terrible players with no idea of teamwork, whether I go carry, support or even random :P
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Wizav on Mon May 07, 2012 2:43 am

If you want to get better matches just ignore your team there's no point trying to save an idiot that keeps walking into 1v5 fights it will just reduces your own exp,farm and decreases your k/d/r and makes you look just as bad as that player according to the games MMR system. Go farm on the other side of the map, kill a tower , get a higher level than your team and try get a few kills with your farm.

Focus on getting as much exp , gold and kills with the least possible deaths regardless of if you win or lose. Your MMR is based on your performance compared to your allies and enemy team. If you consistently have better stats than your team and equal or higher stats to the enemy your games will start improving. If you focus too much on babysitting newbs , trying to prevent losses or pushes that can't really be stopped your just killing your own performance

For that reason you should completely avoid supports/initiators and play carries/gankers/pushers until you start getting teams that have a clue cause trying to support or initiate for carries that can't last hit and build vlads first is just soul destroying.

Stick with pubstompers that don't require much support for a few dozen games until you get better team mates. Tiny , Nightstalker , Bloodseeker , Lycan , Naix , Ursa , Viper are all solid choices

Match making forces you into uneven matches especially as a new player. You'll get matches where you completely stomp other beginners but because you've only got a few games played yourself the game thinks your a pro and sticks you into a game with great players then you get completely stomped and the game throws you back with the newbs, The better you play in those games where you get stomped the higher skilled team mates you'll get next time round until eventually everyone has similar rating to yourself and games become alot more fun/even.


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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Salva on Mon May 07, 2012 2:51 pm

lol solo matchmaking rage.... nah any matchmaking rage for me i had a good few rants with/at trell last night.... sorry!
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Revolving Ocelot on Mon May 07, 2012 3:27 pm

I've played well over 100 games and matchmaking is still mostly a roflstomp. Usually on the receiving end, sometimes on the giving end. Yesterday, I went 1/9/5 as Dragon Knight, followed by 19/1/12 as Viper a few games later.


For fun and giggles, 1 in every 5 games will usually feature someone telling me to uninstall and kill myself IRL.
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Cirno on Mon May 07, 2012 6:00 pm

I've played around 1200 games as of this post (at about 55-57%win ratio), and I don't find bad mannered people all that often =\ and I don't find the balance all that bad, usually games are balanced with the occasional stomp.
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Revolving Ocelot on Mon May 07, 2012 7:15 pm

Cirno wrote:I've played around 1200 games as of this post (at about 55-57%win ratio), and I don't find bad mannered people all that often =\ and I don't find the balance all that bad, usually games are balanced with the occasional stomp.


The 1 in 5 are those who speak English. 3 of the other 4 are usually solid Russians who don't know a single bit of English. I'm sure they're making some kind of insults, though. One broke pattern today to complain about me (Necrolyte) stealing his kill (Witch Doctor). With Heartstopper Aura.
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Cirno on Mon May 07, 2012 7:27 pm

Revolving Ocelot wrote:
Cirno wrote:I've played around 1200 games as of this post (at about 55-57%win ratio), and I don't find bad mannered people all that often =\ and I don't find the balance all that bad, usually games are balanced with the occasional stomp.


The 1 in 5 are those who speak English. 3 of the other 4 are usually solid Russians who don't know a single bit of English. I'm sure they're making some kind of insults, though. One broke pattern today to complain about me (Necrolyte) stealing his kill (Witch Doctor). With Heartstopper Aura.



I haven't played on EU except with UKCS since about 200 games so I don't deal with the Russian problem all that often. Playing on the US servers drastically increased the gameplay since you can actually communicate (Unless the Brazilians show up)
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Flare on Mon May 07, 2012 8:38 pm

Where are you based that the US servers are an option ? 83 ms is my current ping and I feel the game is not very responsive, cant imagine the ping to a US server from the UK...250ms at least I would guess.

I played a few matches as Viper as advised and won both matches but the first one I was a mess, didnt even realise Poison Attack was a active skill till I reached level 6... what a waste as its a brilliant and pretty cheap harrassment tool.
Viper seems to be a all in hero, once you decide to go in to the fight there isnt many options for you to escape... a bit of slow and the corrosive skin but generally you win or die.
Second match with him went far better... harrass with Poison soon got me a first blood ( actually I got FB in both matches ).

It seems though I cant run around and rage at 'noobs' though as my last hitting isnt particularily good at the moment...granted I was competing in lane for lasthits with my partner, while trying to harrass the enemy away from the farm.
I got to admit that it does make for some good practise competing... if you can snatch lasthits from both the enemy and you partner...its going well.

Going to concentrate on Viper for a few more matches until I am comfortable with him, then move onto a melee carry ( Naix.. or Skeleton King ).
Sometimes keeping an eye on your stats is not a good thing :P

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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Revolving Ocelot on Mon May 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Flare wrote:Viper seems to be a all in hero, once you decide to go in to the fight there isnt many options for you to escape... a bit of slow and the corrosive skin but generally you win or die.


That's what Shadow Blade is for. It's a good thing to get on Agi heroes like Viper who can't escape too well if they get caught out. Not to mention that the bonus damage when attacking from invisibility is a great boon for ganking or starting your contribution to a teamfight. I usually grab it on Viper, unless there's a bunch of stealthers on your team already as that means the enemy will get Dust and/or a Gem to detect you. Whether or not I grab it before or after Manta Style (essential for Viper due to Illusions also using Nethertoxin) depends on how the game is going IE if the team's being ganked and you're being targeted a lot, get SB first.
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Cirno on Mon May 07, 2012 9:23 pm

I'm in the east of England, I don't feel any difference in response time between the US and EU servers, I'm sure there is but I don't feel it at all.

For viper, I usually buy a shadowblade to ambush or escape (although this isn't really all that good if you want to carry lategame, as a manta would serve you better for like 1.5k more)
For last hitting with viper, just skill his passive damage increase based on health % and attack the creep when it looks to be on 15% health, he's a beast at last hitting with his instant attack animation and that :P
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Flare on Mon May 07, 2012 10:14 pm

Hell , with the guys I played with in the last match... I am lucky if I could afford a ironwood branch, let alone manta and butterfly , shadow blades and hearts.
I swear if I get that type of team again I will abandon the match early and dont care less about the penalties... it was torture, a slow decline as you cant farm enough to get any items while your enemy is rolling in the farm, and the ones who took the farm from me couldnt do shit with it... then the shits got the nerve to blame me for the loss.
How dafuq is a Viper with treads and manta suppose to deal with a sniper with shadow blade, butterfly, and other stuff.... guy was firing a machine gun and each shot mini stunned you... he could literally 3 shoot my viper, and I couldnt buy a damn thing... no farm.
We lost to 3 players... yes , 5 vs 3 with at least 2 of our team farmed up... but it was me and the Kunkas fault ( the other carry with no farm ).
I spent waaaaaay too much time trying to get to a lane with safe farm but nooo noobs rush there and push up the lane all the way to the enemy side of the river... too dangerous to go for it then.

Ragerageragerage :p
Sometimes keeping an eye on your stats is not a good thing :P

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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Flare on Tue May 22, 2012 7:21 pm

Got a question here ...

I just played a good game and my side won nicely, but if you look at my stats you would think I didnt do a thing... level 14 while the others were level 20+ , low number of last hits , 3 kills 4 deaths 13 assists... but I was warding and helping my team out a lot.
My question is how does this reflect on my performance ? How does it know I was running about making life easier for my team rather than my own KDA... how much is a assist worth on the perf indicator?
Sometimes keeping an eye on your stats is not a good thing :P

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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Cirno on Tue May 22, 2012 11:30 pm

Flare wrote:Got a question here ...

I just played a good game and my side won nicely, but if you look at my stats you would think I didnt do a thing... level 14 while the others were level 20+ , low number of last hits , 3 kills 4 deaths 13 assists... but I was warding and helping my team out a lot.
My question is how does this reflect on my performance ? How does it know I was running about making life easier for my team rather than my own KDA... how much is a assist worth on the perf indicator?


Assists mean nothing IIRC, the Performance Bar is a K:D ratio only thing right now, which is why usually supports will be low on bars (however when you go 18:0:12 in that one stomp game it boosts it up alot as supports will not usually get that score)
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Revolving Ocelot on Wed May 23, 2012 12:47 am

Cirno wrote:
Flare wrote:Got a question here ...

I just played a good game and my side won nicely, but if you look at my stats you would think I didnt do a thing... level 14 while the others were level 20+ , low number of last hits , 3 kills 4 deaths 13 assists... but I was warding and helping my team out a lot.
My question is how does this reflect on my performance ? How does it know I was running about making life easier for my team rather than my own KDA... how much is a assist worth on the perf indicator?


Assists mean nothing IIRC, the Performance Bar is a K:D ratio only thing right now, which is why usually supports will be low on bars (however when you go 18:0:12 in that one stomp game it boosts it up alot as supports will not usually get that score)


False. I know it's based on last hits, denies, gold and exp earned, and probably score too. My Lich score is very high - while I usually sacrifice most of my last hits (normally have lowest in game) for the carry and rarely kill more than I die, I get a truckload of assists, usually win games with him and he places high on my chart.

My Shadow Shaman is rock bottom, and he's played the same way. The difference is that with him I -don't- get a truckload of assists, as I've lost all my 5 games with him and get picked off extremely quickly in fights, so I don't get any credit even if my team wins a fight - as I'm usually dead, and don't get any assists or the shared exp and gold.
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Cirno on Wed May 23, 2012 10:50 am

Revolving Ocelot wrote:
Cirno wrote:
Flare wrote:Got a question here ...

I just played a good game and my side won nicely, but if you look at my stats you would think I didnt do a thing... level 14 while the others were level 20+ , low number of last hits , 3 kills 4 deaths 13 assists... but I was warding and helping my team out a lot.
My question is how does this reflect on my performance ? How does it know I was running about making life easier for my team rather than my own KDA... how much is a assist worth on the perf indicator?


Assists mean nothing IIRC, the Performance Bar is a K:D ratio only thing right now, which is why usually supports will be low on bars (however when you go 18:0:12 in that one stomp game it boosts it up alot as supports will not usually get that score)


False. I know it's based on last hits, denies, gold and exp earned, and probably score too. My Lich score is very high - while I usually sacrifice most of my last hits (normally have lowest in game) for the carry and rarely kill more than I die, I get a truckload of assists, usually win games with him and he places high on my chart.

My Shadow Shaman is rock bottom, and he's played the same way. The difference is that with him I -don't- get a truckload of assists, as I've lost all my 5 games with him and get picked off extremely quickly in fights, so I don't get any credit even if my team wins a fight - as I'm usually dead, and don't get any assists or the shared exp and gold.


Until Valve states what it is then, we can't determine what it scales off.

For example, my highest heroes are Sven and Enigma having complete bars.

My Sven is a weirdly built Sven, I usually win games with him and do nothing more then get kills, that is his role so I accept by winning via carrying with him I get performance bars. This works for both my K:D ratio theory, and your everything theory.

My Enigma isn't how Enigma should be played at all, I don't ward, gank and barely deny (Tactically due to playing Enigma as purely a pusher.), Yet with alot of my Enigma games, I end up getting all the kills in team-fights towards the end and winning via push. In this way my performance as Enigma is pretty bad, I'm not doing what I "should" be at all, but I am carrying.

I'm 12/1 W:L with Leshrac, I push towers and then carry late-game with extreme AOE output due to extensive tower gold and farm, however I only do damage granting assists, I don't get the killing blows. I am 2.5 bars. I would argue, that I have fully fulfilled my role as Leshrac to more then an average point, especially when (And I mean not to blow my own horn) I barely ever see a good Leshrac at my skill level to compare myself too, so I don't see where these ratings are coming from.


In the short of it, Supports I play properly are extremely low (All of my top played/most successful heroes are supports I play properly) Supports I don't play properly (Get kills and carry) are my highest performance apparently (Enigma, Invoker, Clockwerk, Dark Seer, Pugna) despite not doing anything I should be.

Overall, I think the performance feature is awful and should get the heave-ho I'd much rather have plain text statistics of W:L, AVG damage done, AVG KDA, AVG wards placed, AVG healed and so on.
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Revolving Ocelot on Wed May 23, 2012 12:29 pm

I agree that the performance isn't useful. While my top characters are Viper and Bounty (had really good games with both of them), I also have Sven placed weirdly high. My games with him usually consist of dancing around with God's Strength active unable to attack anyone (and when I do try, I get melted instantly). Won a few, lost a few, haven't done very well either on farm or kills and yet he's 4th on the chart!

I have Bloodseeker second and I almost never win games with him.



Wait, just checked the game and Sven is now 3rd, above Viper... :scratch:
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Cirno on Fri May 25, 2012 10:08 am

W:L Is back with the update today, but the performance bars are way out of place now...Ursa who I suck as is one of my best heroes now whereas Sven (Previously 5 bars) is down to 1.5 bars :S
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Re: DOTA2 Rant and ask for help topic

Postby Aceo on Sun May 27, 2012 3:34 pm

Since this is the rant topic, what has happened to the character select screen!?


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