*feedback* de_pariah UKCS

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*feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby jihn on Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:53 pm

If i am not mistaken pariah was originally made by lurky, and a fantastic map it is.

Lurky is currently working on a new version of the map.

So i have added an overview with the new map, with some markers at changes. Old one is below.

A: Bigger bombsite with more servers inside.
B: Bigger bombsite with added backdoor. Vent was removed.
C: Some of the containers area now removed and blocked off. Boxes added so T's can now climb the containers without boost. Container with view to the stairway with windows is still there, but windows have been removed.
D: Doorways and windows removed, so there is now only one big entrance/exit out of containers area.
E: Huge room added for less blocking in CT spawn i assume. (old hossie room from cs pariah)
F: Room made significantly bigger, moving counter by the doorway away.
G: Small house added over T stairs. Ladder leading onto the roof (thx lion)
H: Jeep in garage has now been changed into a truck.

New:
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Old:
Image
"The rover batteries have 18kwh of juice. The oxygenator alone uses 44.1kwh per sol. See my problem?
You know what? "Kilowatt-hours per sol" is a pain in the ass to say. I'm gonna invent a new scientific unit name.
One kilowatt-hour per sol is... it can be anything.. um...I suck at this ... oh FK it. I'll call it a "pirate-ninja".
All told, the Big Three need 69.9pn, most of that going to the Oxygenator and Atmospheric regulator."
-Mark Watney 'The Martian'
If you want something done, select a busy person‚ for the other kind has no time. - based on Elbert Hubbard
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby Lionheart on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:42 pm

Also:

G: Ladder leading onto the roof (feel free to edit it into your 1st post & delete mine :) )
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby jihn on Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:08 pm

Guess i will be the first one to say something then.

C
Containers area, the area works pretty well in the original, ct usually take it, but T can hold it or storm it quite quickly.
In the updated version Ts can now move on top of the containers, without getting a boost, there are two access points car and crates. I think it is sufficient with the access by car. I have not yet made up my mind on this particular bit, so far it may feel a little more T sided.

Containers area, container with view into the stairway. Currently the windows work fine for both sides, both teams have use of this bit.
In the updated version the container is mainly there as an obstacle, windows are no longer there, and this feels like a loss for both sides. It was a nifty little detail on the original.

D
This little building was useful for both teams, T's jumping on the roof covering towards containers could be a little annoying, making a 2nd entrance to from the containers area for both teams was good. A nifty little window could be useful for snipers, or regular rifles.
Now removed, why?


**will make some more notes later, dinner now**

//added the ladder Lion thx :]
"The rover batteries have 18kwh of juice. The oxygenator alone uses 44.1kwh per sol. See my problem?
You know what? "Kilowatt-hours per sol" is a pain in the ass to say. I'm gonna invent a new scientific unit name.
One kilowatt-hour per sol is... it can be anything.. um...I suck at this ... oh FK it. I'll call it a "pirate-ninja".
All told, the Big Three need 69.9pn, most of that going to the Oxygenator and Atmospheric regulator."
-Mark Watney 'The Martian'
If you want something done, select a busy person‚ for the other kind has no time. - based on Elbert Hubbard
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby LurkyUK on Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:43 pm

I've already removed those 3 boxes onto the containers. The only way for the Ts on there is over the car and then they are exposed for a bit before they get cover from that container on top. I think a bigger reason that area plays different is because more Ts spawn that side of the street as apposed to the roof bit so there's a greater number of Ts going that way then before. I've already moved the 4 closest T spawn points back to the other side so we should see the same numbers.

At H (i like the grid by the way) I made that truck bigger so that a CT rushing the stairs and into that left door gets a bit more cover. I have filled the back of the truck up with boxes now so you can't get in any more. The ability for a CT to rush in there unnoticed wasn't that fun.

As for those 4 narrow windows on the stairs by the fish tank there was too much getting shot by someone you can't see. I know its awesome when you shoot at people who don't even notice the window is there and get easy kills but so many Ts run up those stairs and get shot in the back by a CT camping that container. I'm guessing you're that CT :p


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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby jihn on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:54 pm

hahaha, actually, iv hardly ever been that CT. I have mainly used those windows for trying to stop T rushing containers(from the stairwell), and(outside) covering the second floor hallway(elevator door you see from window).

Personally i think removing the windows are a mistake, it feels like you are dumbing the map down. Same with the removal of the vent and the removal of the counter in front of the doorway on F.


I fully agree with you on H btw, that looks like it was a good change. I am still working on the other points but i am really disliking the G house over the straircase at the moment. But as i said, working on the rest of the points atm :)
"The rover batteries have 18kwh of juice. The oxygenator alone uses 44.1kwh per sol. See my problem?
You know what? "Kilowatt-hours per sol" is a pain in the ass to say. I'm gonna invent a new scientific unit name.
One kilowatt-hour per sol is... it can be anything.. um...I suck at this ... oh FK it. I'll call it a "pirate-ninja".
All told, the Big Three need 69.9pn, most of that going to the Oxygenator and Atmospheric regulator."
-Mark Watney 'The Martian'
If you want something done, select a busy person‚ for the other kind has no time. - based on Elbert Hubbard
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby astro on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:59 pm

House on the roof removes the ability for CT to rush and cause carnage, one of the most enjoyable parts of this map is when you get a team up for charging in, personally i would revert back to how it was before, just a personal opinion that it removes another rush option and almost encourages camping.

The jeep or truck in the underground seems to hinder movement, it's too big for the area and whilst it helps the t's rush and hold that area i was again bring up the point, do we want a fast paced map or are we trying to slow it down ? personally i liked to rush the stairs but now its worth holding back as one flash off the side of the 'truck' and your blind and dead. It might allow the ct's to rush a bit easier to lower but once they get to lower then they have only two options die miserably by the doors leading to outside or trying to push through the lower floor *under H / F on the map* which is not really viable, youve a 1 in 10 chance of doing it without a t getting there first and being able to prefire you as you walk through the doors leading out of where the truck is.

The rest of the changes are good however i personally enjoy pariah as standard and whilst the changes bring something new i don't quite see the need to change it ? :)
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby jihn on Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:08 am

Well, personally i would rather see see the original pariah on rotation.
Then have this version manually put up once a night or to generate more feedback, feedback you will be there to get. If we want to improve on well made maps, i think we should do it step by step.
"The rover batteries have 18kwh of juice. The oxygenator alone uses 44.1kwh per sol. See my problem?
You know what? "Kilowatt-hours per sol" is a pain in the ass to say. I'm gonna invent a new scientific unit name.
One kilowatt-hour per sol is... it can be anything.. um...I suck at this ... oh FK it. I'll call it a "pirate-ninja".
All told, the Big Three need 69.9pn, most of that going to the Oxygenator and Atmospheric regulator."
-Mark Watney 'The Martian'
If you want something done, select a busy person‚ for the other kind has no time. - based on Elbert Hubbard
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby jihn on Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:13 pm

So iv been playing this a little bit more, i am still not a huge fan of the changes. I like some but not all, and for some its still too early to tell.

Mainly id like to see the original patched with:

  • Bigger car in garage
  • Bigger ct spawn
  • Ladder up to wall to G
  • Moving Door into stairs on G removed
  • Moving Door into B removed
  • Test out keeping the current redesign of bombsite B, and add a secondary entrance door where the vent used to be. And remove the newly added door in the back of B, keep the 'server' there.

For now i would like to see the rest of the map like the original, and then see how we can progress towards an improved map from there. I might be in favor of increasing the size of the room on F, but there should still be a fuse box on T side of bridge for cover, and a counter infront of the doorway on CT side.

Would like to see the result of the other changes first however.
"The rover batteries have 18kwh of juice. The oxygenator alone uses 44.1kwh per sol. See my problem?
You know what? "Kilowatt-hours per sol" is a pain in the ass to say. I'm gonna invent a new scientific unit name.
One kilowatt-hour per sol is... it can be anything.. um...I suck at this ... oh FK it. I'll call it a "pirate-ninja".
All told, the Big Three need 69.9pn, most of that going to the Oxygenator and Atmospheric regulator."
-Mark Watney 'The Martian'
If you want something done, select a busy person‚ for the other kind has no time. - based on Elbert Hubbard
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby Uk_Legend on Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:29 am

The new vent: If you are below it, you can see the reflection on the people in it. Could this be fixed?


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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby A Killer Potato on Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:50 am

If you mean the shadows then no, not really; it's an engine bug. I just played around with that staircase in hammer for a while and it seems unpreventable.
I am 47% addicted to Counterstrike. What about you?

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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby Uk_Legend on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:42 am

Ok thanks for trying.

Last edited by Uk_Legend on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby LurkyUK on Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:45 am

Well for the next version I am disabling shadows on this and pyramid due to so many shadow bugs. The solution to fix it and keep shadows is to select every single brush you wish to disable them on, all the while holding down shift. If you let go of shift by mistake you have to start again so it's easier to just lose them completely.

The problem with this version is I'm still debating about whether or not I like the Ts being able to rush B/containers. I know they can't in the original but it's nice having the option to in this and I've seen the bomb planted so many times at B instead of just the roof rush to A :)


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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby jihn on Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:48 pm

T's can take the containers in the original as well, it depends on the players on the server, it is a tougher job than todays push however.

As for CT spawn, added spawnroom is still causing problems for mindless camping in corners.
Added vent is really easy for ct to defend/camp i see it happening all the time, not to mention if T's managed to take it. It can be covered from the added spawnroom, added spawnroom provides excellent cover.

If a T is pushing, and gets to CT spawn, he enters a huge room, and he scans quickly, logical choice is going spawnroom first, but if ct has not lost the vent, then the chances of getting shot in the back are significant.

I still think B needs another entrance way, just a door or something where the vent used to be.

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"The rover batteries have 18kwh of juice. The oxygenator alone uses 44.1kwh per sol. See my problem?
You know what? "Kilowatt-hours per sol" is a pain in the ass to say. I'm gonna invent a new scientific unit name.
One kilowatt-hour per sol is... it can be anything.. um...I suck at this ... oh FK it. I'll call it a "pirate-ninja".
All told, the Big Three need 69.9pn, most of that going to the Oxygenator and Atmospheric regulator."
-Mark Watney 'The Martian'
If you want something done, select a busy person‚ for the other kind has no time. - based on Elbert Hubbard
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby LurkyUK on Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:06 pm

I was thinking about moving the vent exit into the spawn over a bit so that wall with the whiteboard is blocking the sight line into the extra room. Also a vent entrance on the back wall at B connecting up to the other vent as they are so close to each other anyway, so it will be a mixture of the old vent connecting up with the new. That way if Ts get to B they can go in the vents at B and get the camping CTs from behind. Also with the vent exit into the CT spawn moved more central it will be easier to get a shot of the ones that camp behind the table and the whiteboard wall from inside the vent. I like the vents so I'd like to find a solution to be able to keep them :)


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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby LazyGun on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:20 pm

Maps ok, but not nearly as good as the original. Why is there a need to change the the maps that are nigh on perfect.

And if you really have to, keep them on server 1 where they won't know the difference.

Make new ones, change the bad ones, but leave the already great ones alone please.
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby Little_Devil on Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:43 pm

Actually the original was a cs map, which has not been on for a number of years, and there have been 7 or 8 re-incarnations of the de_ version since then.

So which version are you calling the original ?
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby astro on Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:56 pm

the version that seems original to him was the one on ukcs for the last 2+ years i believe ^
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby Little_Devil on Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:33 pm

The problem there of course is the map has been changed 6 or 7 times over that same period.

Many maps do get changed with variations that players soon forget, and since the amount of good feedback in the past has been negligible, we have had no complaints about these changes.
It is only this year that players have managed to come forward with some good supporting feedback and interaction on a map design basis.
As an example from last year viewtopic.php?f=17&t=46445
Typically I hate this map vent.
Lately however players have decided to vent less, and be more constructive with their comments.

We need good feedback and sensible comments regarding maps, so they can either be changed or removed.

However with regard to these hidden map changes, what I have decided to do was leave the older version on #2 whilst putting the updated map on #1, this gives players a chance to see the difference and also comment on those differences. Once this has been run in this way for a while the admin in charge of the map section can let me know if there are any major complaints, and if not, the map on #2 is also updated.
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby astro on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:27 am

I think the main issue that seems to be overlooked is the fact that maps are being changed without any input prior to it being done, why can there not a thread made for example "Plan to remake de_pariah" then a vote to see what the general consensus is and then people to offer up suggestions or what they want changed, if no one offers any feedback then let the map maker do whatever he wants. If you give people the opportunity to voice their opinion it feels like like something is being forced upon you and more like a community decision.

In regards to pariah itself i have noted a number of the issues with the map,

Area "G" - i would like to see this removed and see what difference it makes (the hut)
Area "F" - extremely hard for ct's to now hold the bridge as they just get spam naded from spawn
Area "H" - the vent above the stairs near here you can see players shadows and just spam them through the metal from below.

These are the main issues as i see them, other than that the map works.
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Re: *feedback* de_pariah UKCS

Postby LurkyUK on Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:56 pm

The shadow bugs have been fixed for b6
The room across the bridge is easier for the CTs to hold now. The room is bigger and there are more metal railings around the bridge itself to make it harder for Ts to throw grenades up there. I don't understand why you think it is a problem on this version and not the original.
I don't see what the problem with the hut is either? I added it to make the roof look more realistic. The door faces the back wall so the Ts don't get spammed coming through the door so that's not a problem. It also adds cover for the Ts, or the CTs should they climb the new ladder up there later on in the round. What difference do you think it'll make not being there?


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