Weed

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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:57 pm

It all depends on how u feel about it when its taken away. If you still have strong desire for it once its gone your addicted and it will effect your mental health if you dont get it back.


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Re: Weed

Postby Haze on Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:33 am

a habit formed activity can be classed as an addiction.


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Re: Weed

Postby Mr Tortoise on Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:55 am

id go further ... it is an addiction.

There is no mind body duality.


although that does mean that the whol eof human activity can be reduces to layers of habit upon layers of habit until you get down to the bare necesities.



one reason why I am glad i took some drugs is because of the habit/addiction factor.

It made me realise something quite striking. There are several problems with being addicted ...

1) People do thing sbecause of habit - change is often something that indicates a problem and so people like consistency ... it a survival trait which is why we can get locked into behaviours by habit.

2) Metal behaviour could be thoughts of behavioural patterns of thought ... If you consider the interactions of thoughts as being analogous to your interactions with things int he world then you can see that mind-body analogy leads to a mental version of habit.

3) addiction to things is manufactured ... ok in some cases such as crack there are real chemical issues there (but scientifically all chemical reactions have to hav ea 1:1 relation to mental activity) - but you also have to consider that crack also removes a lot from these people turning them into pathetic scum bags (which in part is why it is so addictive imo ... the kind of people that take it *are* weak susceptible people that feel they need more from life.)

4) Addiction to cigarettes has been manufactured by cigarette companies and companies that make a profit from getting you off yoru addiction.



Do you want ot know what the hardest thing about getting out of an addiction is?

Breaking your behavioural patterns .. being constantly reminded of the thin that you are trying to exclude from your life is *not* the way to do this. Thi sis why people find it hard to quit smoking
1) there are signs everywhere

2) There is an image of 'smoking is hard to quit' being presented everywhere - its really not, just dont fucking do it. You don;t piss yourself, so don;t smoke.

3) this whole mind / body thing is used to try and create a part of the addiction that is beyond free will. IE you are addicted, but its not your fault .... BULLSHIT, You are making a metaphysical claim in order to say that, fortunatley it is in accordance with our cultural religion so it gets under the radar ... but there is no reason to support this whilst also retainin gyour free will. IE the people who are selling you this viewpoint are creating a situation of which you believe you ahve no control and so are not able to get out of yourself. That is just lame.



As such there is no such thing as being addicted to smoking imo.

Its a combination of 1) having the behavioural patterns that will lead to you getting into situations where you would normally smoke and 2) letting yourself be a little petulant child in your own mind crying for a smoke.

We'd tell a chil doff for doing this but its ok in adults, its not their fault, they can;t help it, they have no control over their ADDICTION.


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Re: Weed

Postby ;nate on Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:29 pm

Possible to be allergic to weed?
Discuss.
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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:56 pm

As such there is no such thing as being addicted to smoking imo.


Its not the smoking thats addictive its the nicotine in the ciggerettes.

It only takes 7-10 seconds for nicotine to enter your blood stream and start creating chemical reactions in your brain. Those chemicals reactions create pleasure.

Nicotine is VERY addictive. Anything that causes pleasurable chemical reactions in the brain is addictive, And that applies to everything.

Alcohol , sex , caffeine etc etc.


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Re: Weed

Postby Mr Tortoise on Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:04 pm

dude - you are saying that pleasure causes addiction.

you clearly don;t smoke - i dont smoke cigarettes anymore.


If you read my post ...
Nicotene is really not the hard part of giving up smoking ... its the situational habitual stuff, Being at the pub, finishing a meal, gettin gout of bed. Some people its coffee ... people build up patterns. That is the really ahrd part to get out of.

As I said ... ther eis no such thing as min dbody duality. Its been smashed more times thatn you can imagine in so many different ways.

The chemical processes in your brain must = the mental processes in your brain unless you are insisting that there is something mystical that you can never know - and even then that just makes both our arguments invalid.

There is no reason to suppose that the 'physical' addiction that you feel is not precisley the same thing as the 'mental'addiction of other drugs ... its just that it happens to cause the kind of imbalance that we have discovered how to measure.

IE yes there is a chemical reaction that is inducing behaviour however that is equivalent to having a fucked up mental process - if you ask an addict they do not do thing sbecause of the dopamine levels in their brains they do it because of how they feel.

Yes nicotine is addictinve, however a smoker experiences that whilst they are displaying symptons akin to that of a 5 year old how hasn't got their sweets.
Slap them and you will get a better response and thell them to grow the fuck up.

All it is is obsessing on something, get it out of mind and the problem goes.


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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:49 pm

Nicotine activates reward pathways—the circuitry within the brain that regulates feelings of pleasure and euphoria THAT IS ADDICTIVE. And btw ive smoked for almost 8 years.

Much like this forum and why we play games. We dont play CS cause we can shoot people and plant the bomb. We dont play CS because its a habbit or a routine.

We play CS cause it creates reactions, mainly adrenaline. Adrenaline is a very nice feeling and its addictive.

if you ask an addict they do not do thing sbecause of the dopamine levels in their brains they do it because of how they feel.


And dopamine controls how you feel in a very large way and drugs effect dopamine levels. Dopamine can increase motivation , pleasure , cognition. It has huge effects on how you feel. So yes they are taking the drugs because of there dopamine levels.

Those feelings of satisfaction become desired, and the person will grow a desire for the satisfaction. To satisfy that desire the person will repeat behaviors that cause the release of dopamine. It's nothing to do with routine or habbits.

That is why people want food even when the body does not need it. And thats also why people smoke.


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Re: Weed

Postby Zircon on Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:16 pm

I don't get it :P
Desire for satisfaction = addiction
?!!?
No.
What is addiction?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Physical_dependency wrote:Physical dependence on a substance is defined by the appearance of characteristic withdrawal symptoms when the substance is suddenly discontinued.

I think this is the right definition for "addiction".
Tell me more about the withdrawal symptoms that follow when you discontinue using cannabis after a long term use.
Just because you like it doesn't make it addictive.
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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:02 pm

Addiction isnt just tied into Withdrawal symptoms and dependence.

Gambling addictions , Sex addiction , Alcohol addiction , Shopping addictions and all the many more addictions that have no withdrawl symptoms other than the person being upset cause they can no longer do it.

If something causes enough pleasure and reward in the brain. The brain can force you into repeating it over and over.

In the same kind of way obsessive compulsive disorder works. Your brain will just keep reminding you to do it or want you to do it and untill you do it you wont be able to relax or feel happy.


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Re: Weed

Postby Zircon on Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:02 pm

lol, ban gambling, sex and shopping, they are addictive :D jk
On a serious note how is the addiction (the way you explained it Wizav) an argument against cannabis? Can't you just want something that you like? It's not like after your first joint you would go crazy about it and use it more than you should. You CAN quit it!
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Re: Weed

Postby Blast on Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:19 pm

you CAN quit, easier said than done if youre like me and have no willpower.
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Re: Weed

Postby skank2ska on Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:48 am

I have smoked weed for about 5 years now and id say that weed is hard to stop due to whatever reasons, the nicotine addiction or just the pleasure of getting high. So if your weak willed and are thinking of trying drugs thinking you will stop before it gets bad just dont do it. My thoughts are that if i didnt smoke weed i would smoke stupid amounts more cigarettes and they do you more harm so im good as i am for the mo :)
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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:50 pm

On a serious note how is the addiction (the way you explained it Wizav) an argument against cannabis? Can't you just want something that you like? It's not like after your first joint you would go crazy about it and use it more than you should. You CAN quit it!


Yes you CAN quit. But its wanting to quit. Most people that smoke cannabis do not want to quit infact they are highly against quitting. Thats to do with the reward system in the brain again.

If you take something or do something that makes you feel good your brain,body or whatever will want more of it. Trouble with drugs is though they cause alot of damage and generally thats the only reason people stop.

Another problem is that drugs lower your natural high or sober high. Drinking does not effect that neither do ciggerettes. Sure u will have a hangover the next morning or couple of days but then you return to normal.

With things like cocaine , cannabis , heorin and much stronger psychoactive drugs you remain on a lower than sober high for much longer periods of time and you feel a bit depressed and moody. Speak to anyone that smokes weed when they are completely sober and its blatantly obvious to see this in effect.

If you speak to someone thats been drinking or smoking for 3 years when there sober they are exactly the same as when they first started. Speak to someone thats been smoking cannabis for 3 years and they are not the same when sober they have dipped below there natural high and are constantly on a mini downer.

The stronger the drug the worse that effect gets.

If your health was not effected by drugs atall noone on earth would quit doing drugs. Only problem is people generally only give up once the damage has already been caused.


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Re: Weed

Postby Mr Tortoise on Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:05 pm

blast that is BS


you have no will power?

what, you mean you have no will to quit because you want to smoke more than you want to quit?

Trust me, if you keep smoking, its because you want to.

People get into this kind of a tizz because they feel they shuld be quitting. Which BTW is also BS.
If you want to quit, and actually really want to quit then its a doddle. Until you actually make that decision its very difficult.


People quit for weeks at a time and start again, thats usually not addiction (Nicotine addiciton only lasts around 24-48 hours apparently) thats you simply prefering to smoke than not ... usually due to a pattern of social life.

seriously I am sure that a lot of people are convinced that they are addicted to cigaretes when actually they can go for weeks at a time without if you displace them sufficiently ... as soon as they go home they light up again.


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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:01 pm

Tortoise do you think any addictions exist?

And how are they different to tabacco?


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Re: Weed

Postby Mr Tortoise on Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:14 pm

yes addictions exist

addictions are a behavioural condition that has a NEGATIVE side effect.

We only consider things that we consider to be negative to be an addiction - usually in others.

also it has to be something that we repeat again and again ... wether consciously or sub consciously.


Notice how i do not refer to chemistry or to psychology because neither are fully adequate.


we cause more harm than good calling them diseases / chemical imbalances / metal deficiencies.

But at the end of the day a cure to an addiction is a behavioural change

EG some could say im addicted to ultimatley pointless arguments with people i never meet - yet know a decent amount about in some cases - on forums.


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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:33 pm

addictions are a behavioural condition that has a NEGATIVE side effect.


Thats true but its what your addicted to that causes the behavioural change. And thats caused by what your addiction offers you which is generally always related to your brain and reactions.

Adrenaline , Relaxation , Stimulation , Euphoria and all the other types of reactions and feelings.

You cannot become addicted to something through behaviour changes alone because your behaviour simply will not change if what your doing/taking offers you nothing. For instance its pretty much impossible to become addicted to something thats bland or boring.

Your behaviour is controlled by your brain and the thing you become addicted to effects/controls yours brain. So you are right that behaviour does controll adiction but its your addiction that creates that behaviour.

Its not a simple case of i want to quit im going to quit. Depending on the strengh of the addiction you can only quit if what you want is removed and you make it impossible to get hold of it. Even when trying to quit an addiction you still really want it at the same time its like 50/50. Your brains reward system controlls that , you do not.

For instance put a heroin addict in a room and ask him/her to quit through will power alone and on the table infront of him/her place everything they need to take a hit. I'd like to see how many human beings have will power that strong to be honest. I dont think there's a single person on earth that wouldnt take the hit.


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Re: Weed

Postby Zircon on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:34 pm

Wizav wrote:For instance put a heroin addict in a room and ask him/her to quit through will power alone and on the table infront of him/her place everything they need to take a hit.

What?! You can't compare a heroin addict to tobacco addict or to a cannabis "addict" (whatever :roll:).
Withdrawal symptoms with heroin are 1000 times worse than with tobacco.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin_withdrawal wrote:Symptoms may include: sweating, malaise, anxiety, depression, priapism, extra sensitivity of the genitals in females, general feeling of heaviness, cramp-like pains in the limbs, excessive yawning or sneezing, tears, rhinorrhea, sleep difficulties (insomnia), cold sweats, chills, severe muscle and bone aches; nausea and vomiting, diarrhea, cramps, and fever.

Eesh, I can't decide whether I'd take the shot if I'd have to face those demons.

However if there was a long term regular cannabis user in the room with some good bud on the table in a joint. There are no withdrawal symptoms to drive him to the point where he just can't resist the temptation. The more withdrawal symptoms there are the more will power is needed. That's what I think.
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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:21 pm

Thats why i said "Depending on the strength of the addiction".


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Re: Weed

Postby Zircon on Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:47 pm

Wizav wrote:Thats why i said "Depending on the strength of the addiction".

Fair enough. But do you mean to say that one couldn't quit cannabis if it was easily available?
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