Weed

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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:15 am

Moderation, moderation and once again moderation!


There are loads of cases where a single spliff or bong has effected people very badly. I know someone personally that ended up in a mental health care unit after smoking weed just a couple of days.

Yes he was probally alot more vulnerable and already had the triggers just waiting to go off. But we cannot be sure who is safe and who isnt so its better to just keep it illegal untill

A. There is a better safer type of cannabis that does not trigger mental health issues
B. We know exactly who will be effected badly and who will be fine if they smoke it.

Goverment will not sell drugs that are capable of seriously effecting mental health of it's population.

And and btw legal highs such as the herbal smoke - Spice are starting to be mass banned in parts of world. I watched a program on it. Even the legal high herbs create lots of mental health problems and many people have become paranoid and anxious from taking them.

And cannabis is 5-10 times stronger than spice. The reason it effected people so quickly was due to it being legal and a much higher percentage of people started smoking it. We will never see the real effects of cannabis untill it's legal. But if fairly harmless legal highs are being banned after just 1-3 years that are alot weaker than cannabis its fairly obvious what the negative effects on people would be like.


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Re: Weed

Postby melipone on Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:36 pm

I watched a program on natural highs, and it was pretty scary how little was known of what was actually in them. They got tests done and for some of the stuff they were more likely to make you physically ill rather than high, or worse. They don't put anything about the "drug" on the packet..could be anything. Some regulation and rules like with food packets would be enough rather than banning them tho imo. Legal alternatives are whats needed imo, with the consumer having full information on what they're using

On real drugs..its a pretty complex issue but my opinion is people have a right to live their lives as they choose, as long as it doesn't harm other people or interfere with others right to live as they choose. If people get drug education and see the real effects of the harder stuff they can make an informed decision. As it is now people just get introduced to drugs by people who already use em, so get a biased set of opinions. The government should do some real tests and educate people with the truth and no BS. Only complete idiots would do stuff like Heroin or Crystal Meth if they realised the true effects.

Supposedly weed can make you schizophrenic, but maybe it just accelerates the condition in people who were likely to get it anyway, and maybe some people can be caught before they start using weed. People have been smoking the stuff for thousands and thousands of years, its a part of people's culture..most people who smoke weed don't have any adverse affects, and some tests have shown it to be safer than Alcohol. If the government worked on alternatives to drugs that have similar effects, but without the negative elements they could really ruin the drug industry for criminals. I mean why should drugs be solely made by people with an ulterior motive...not just to get you high but to make you addicted, have horrendous comedowns, or withdrawal. In thousands of years I think you won't get drugs like you do now..people will have found ways to directly alter the brains levels of serotonin, dopamine etc so theres no negative effects, only the desired mood, mental state etc and then there won't be a criminal element.


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Re: Weed

Postby ShoTz on Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:44 pm

CraKinShOt wrote:Long term Cannabis use = Schizophrenia. Trust me... Its not something you can "recover" from either. Once that door is open, it stays open.


Depends if you think that Schizophrenia is genetic or down to the environment. There are many arguements for both.

Im under the view that Schizophrenia is genetically predisposed and the smoking of cannabis brings out the gene


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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:20 pm

On real drugs..its a pretty complex issue but my opinion is people have a right to live their lives as they choose, as long as it doesn't harm other people or interfere with others right to live as they choose


What happens when someone smokes cannabis and becomes mentally ill , can no longer work or pay tax. Receives benefits and creates extra work for the NHS.

Now imagine cannabis legalised how many of the 65 million people in England would try it or smoke it. How many of those would become ill

Country would go to pot. Would have huge impacts on society.


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Re: Weed

Postby melipone on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:42 pm

As with everything, there are risks involved. Alcohol is worse yet its acceptable to use it in our society. Eating unhealthily can shorten your life expectancy.

Most people wouldn't be smoking pot all day just because its legal lol..don't think it would have much affect on our society except people would probably drink less


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Re: Weed

Postby Mr Tortoise on Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:05 am

legalisation of weed woul dhave almost no impact on who smokes it.


Laws do not deter people.

Besides nobody has had a mental break down from a few spliffs. If you are just going to make shit up why bother?

I had a friend once who only had a few beers and that caused his kidneys to fail.

I had another friend who watched football twice and then he got throat cancer.


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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:49 pm

I suggest you read this. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... lness.html

You can be sarcastic and stupid all you want. There is no evidence of people having kidney failure are just a few beers.

There is plenty of evidence worldwide of cannabis effecting people after as little as a single spliff. Tbh i suggest you do some actually research. Visit your local mental health practice and ask them what percentage of patients smoked weed with weed being the main cause of there problems.


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Re: Weed

Postby Aceo on Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:39 pm

How do you define the main cause with psychological problems? The amount of things which are affecting a person is extremely high.


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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:35 am

Well its the trigger in most cases. Before cannabis is smoked the person is fine mentally and very social and just generally normal.

After smoking they can become the complete oposite with cases of anxiety , paranoia etc


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Re: Weed

Postby Zircon on Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:25 am

Wizav wrote:I suggest you read this. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... lness.html

"Contrary to the evidence cited by the RSA not everyone can use cannabis with no ill effects - particularly those teenagers whose developing minds are most at risk. Continued cannabis use can rob young people of their appetite for life. Motivation, focus and energy literally go up in smoke. I know too many whose lives have been blighted by cannabis and who face bleak days tormented by fear and failure. The fallout on their families is equally heartbreaking."

This I might actually agree with. I'm 19 so practically I'm a teenager. I like to smoke cannabis BUT I do it quite rarely. The reason for this is that I don't want to grow too fond of it on an early stage of my life. I have my own theory (which I'm not alone with) that when your brains are still developing they can be effected by drugs/cannabis. When I grow a little older I'd like to see it legal so I could enjoy it safely without any pressures from society. Decriminalise it for older than 21 or 23!

Wizav wrote:There is plenty of evidence worldwide of cannabis effecting people after as little as a single spliff. Tbh i suggest you do some actually research. Visit your local mental health practice and ask them what percentage of patients smoked weed with weed being the main cause of there problems.

Hard to believe it's really their only problem. Or then they're hardcore smokers who have started young and smoked a lot. tst tst.

There are different kinds of cannabis strains(that the word?). Some have more cannabinoids in them some have less. I've never smoked a powerful one (sativa) so I really don't know about the effects. I've heard that they're very psychedelic. Well, some first timers aren't expecting that and they just can't handle it. They get scared easily by others and they start seeing unpleasant hallucinations (I know one case).

Why start with a strong plant? Because you can't really choose what you get when you buy off the streets. Especially if you're a youngster and out of good contacts. If you compare this to alcohol: There's beer and there's absinthe (72%). If it was your first time, which one would you prefer?

These are just my thoughts.
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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:28 pm

There's beer and there's absinthe (72%). If it was your first time, which one would you prefer?


Thats not really the point is it. The damage done from taking absinthe will last a few days max and you will know never to drink it again.

With cannabis however once the door to mentall illness has been opened you cant just shake it off and shut the door. You have no controll over how it effects you what so ever.

If you get shizophrenia for example you cant just stop smoking cannabis and expect to be ok in 2-3 days, You are now effected for the rest of your life.

BIG difference.


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Re: Weed

Postby Mr Tortoise on Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:34 pm

The problem with vitamin pills is that they kill you if you take too many. There is no going back from that you stop taking them and 2-3 days later you are still knackered...

BIg difference.

You are not actually making any arguments wizav you are simply repeating the same old rhetoric that has been around for 50 years. The fact is that weed has been in our culture for longer than the romans. There really isn;t any evidence linking cannabis to schizophrenia simply because by making it illegal they deprived themselves of the data to be able to make a conclusive argument ... one again another argument for decriminilasation rather than hysterical claims of shcizophrenia.

my point is that THERE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF KIDNEY FAILURE AFTER 1 BEER BECAUSE THAT IS AS INNANE AS SUGGESTING SOMEONE HAS MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS AFTER 1 SPLIFF AND I WAS SUGGESTING THAT YOU STOP MAKING SHIT UP

It is not a triggen is most cases ... in fact there is no research that points to cannabis as being a trigger or gateway drug.

Stop blaming chemicals for people being fucked in the head. People who have mental problems take drugs, as do people without mental problems. The big difference is that we perscribe all kinds of nasty shit to the ones who need help. Weed ofen does not have their nasty side effects or in cases where there are side effects actually helps people feel a bit better.

moreover absinthe had its problems due to bad distillery leading to wood alcohon (ie methanol) which makes people *really* ill.

The high alcohol concerntration is purley to absorb the max amount of thorjin or however you spell it from the wormwood.


http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/

go read


search for this

Neuropsychological Performance in Long-Term Cannabis Users

other interesting articles are about dependance, thre is an interesting one also comparing the dependancies of cannabis to other drugs.


http://www.parliament.the-stationery-of ... 105.htm#a2
full article:
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-of ... /15101.htm

read this, its the uk report on the damage caused by long term cannabis intake ... note it does not cause schizophrenia. Morevoer note most of what you are saying is bullshit bordering on pure fantasy as a result of NOT goign out and doing your homework but simply repeating what is fed to you without questioning its source or the sources motications.

Note that many similar reports have been handed to both our government and the american government who then ignore them are persist in treating it the way they are despite first seeking a report from experts in order to get good advice.

cancer rates increase has been debunked
gateway drug has been debunked
causes schizophrenia has been debunked
causes short term memory loss has been decunked.
dependance has shown to be more on par to coffee than cocaine and tobacco.

anything else that it causes that you wish to draw to someones attention?


you want to know something that really suprised me from all that reading?

There is a suggestion that cannabis can be used to treat bronchial asthma - so stick that in your pipe and smoke it ...


Cannabis is an analgesic
It can potentially be used to trwat epilepsy
It can potentially be used to treat glucoma of the eyes
It can potentially relieve Ms sufferrs


other quotes of interest

'However, the Home Office Forensic Science Service, who have data on the THC content of seized cannabis samples, do not support the view that most users in the United Kingdom are exposed to material containing ten times as much THC as in the 1960s and 1970s. '

IE weed has not gotten stronger.

' 6.18 The Under-Secretary of State at the Home Office, George Howarth MP, told us confidently that legalising recreational use would cause such use to increase (Q 674). Professor Edwards, writing for the Royal Society, is less sure: "We would expect weakening of controls over cannabis to result in increased use levels, but this is an empirical question on which research at present is not conclusive...Removal of prohibition on cannabis would have to be described as a voyage into the unknown. Some added harm and some added costs would undoubtedly result" (p 303). There is international experience which might throw light on this question, but we have not explored it in detail.'

so total uncertainty about the increase of use in the event of it being decriminalised.


And the really big kicker the argument tfrom the house of lords to decriminalise cannabis

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-of ... 10.htm#a26


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Re: Weed

Postby Gh0st.IRE on Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:39 am

Ok, This is a little off-topic but I need an answer.

So my Dad came home from Work and told me this story. His boss's son went into a "Head Shop" in town. One of those natural high stores. He bought some pill or some plant, Im not sure. On the packet it said "Not suitable for humans" but the shopkeeper said it was fine. How the hell can they sell it if it even says its not for humans?
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Re: Weed

Postby jihn on Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:14 am

An off-topic answer:

Me and the gf use something called stevia instead of sugar, stevia is however "not suitable for humans" in EU anyway. So you can only buy it as a supplement to your animals or the likes...*cough* If it does not say on the package that its not suitable for humans, then they are not allowed to sell it in their shops.

Wiki article about stevia
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Re: Weed

Postby Mr Tortoise on Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:25 pm

aye there wa sa huge e-number panick in about 85 ... remember it because i stopped getting turkey burgers and wa banned from monster much and spave invaders ...

now i can have moar!!!


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Re: Weed

Postby Zircon on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:56 pm

Check this out Ghost.

Spice(drug)

It could have been that or an alternative. It's sold as incense. That way they are not responsible for anything if something goes wrong when you smoke it.
Spice has synthetic cannabinoids in it so it really has similiar effects with cannabis. However, there is no THC in Spice. And it's currently legal in UK. Bloody hell. :P

Oh, and if you try it for the first time, you'll only need a tiny amount. Not a joint entirely full of it. Just a word of warning :)
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Re: Weed

Postby Wizav on Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:30 pm

there is no THC in Spice. And it's currently legal in UK. Bloody hell.


And in Guernsey where legal highs were first popular its already illegal because it was effecting people's Mental and physical health.

Cannabis = Stronger than spice. 5 times stronger apparently

Spice made legal and released to public.
Alot of the public start having problems
Spice = illegal

Are you still convinced cannabis is safe and healthy and should be legalised?

Oh and spice was taxed and all that other bollocks so no it wasnt just made illegal because the goverment cant tax it. It was was made illegal because it fucked alot of people up in a very short ammount of time.

And thats why cannabis is never going to be Legal in this country.

Legal highs are already close to being illegal in the UK. I bet before xmas they are all illegal


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Re: Weed

Postby Mr Tortoise on Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:39 am

Eh?


spice is a synthetic drug

it is not cannabis

It was *NOT* made legal, it was designed around a legal loophole

It has VERY little to do with cannabis that is really a concoction of hundreds of chemicals and moreover grows naturally.


That is like making beer illegal because wood alcohol will make you go blind.
Wizav I am sorry I have to insult you, but please stop making really vague, analogous and flimsy arguments.


I linked you to the house of lords review of cannabis. There really is not a more well researched piece of literature out there. It was also done by the stuffy old farts that you would normally expect to take your position.


Morevoer after 6 pages of posting you still do not understand the subtelties in the words legalised and decriminalised.

There are fundementalists in this world who are just plain stupid. These are people who have adopted a set of beliefs and insist they are true in contrary to the many contradictory facts anout. I feel lik eit is my duty to insult them and try to make them engage in an argument.


There are however another bunch of people who have an opinion, never seek ouit the facts for themselves and just repeat the same bollocks again and again. I am not allowed to insult these people, i guess this is because they are special needs cases and its unfair to beat up on someone who doesn't have a hope.

Try not to fall into either group I will only start throwing abuse as its really the only way to engage with them - why play their game of pretending to be rational when they are not.

Go and read that house of lords article, yes its long. But the argument is complex with many many issues that really can;t be solved as simply as going 'look at that unrelated synthetic drug that was designed to evade the law, look how its harmed people, therefor a plant that has been smoked and eaten and consumed in a wide variety of ways for thuosands of years is obviously evil, will destroy world piece and kill BABIES!!


seriously this is my last post on the issue. I put a lot of work in to have a rational argument and you did a Des on me. You ignored it all and just posted something totally tangential and unrelated only to try and desperatley draw a tenuous thread from it.


When i was 16 I was about as anti drugs as you can get. Then I grew up and discovered that almost every chemical we take is a drug and realised that this is simply the chemical version of morality.

Cannabis for me is the equivalent of my grandparents thinking that sex before mariage really shouldn't happen and wondering who let all the gollywogs into the country. they don't question their views - why shuold they. Why should you? The answer is you don't have to, unless you post on a forum purporting to be based arout rationality.

For instance, my mum has cancer. She has about 4-6 months to live and is in a lot of pain. She is on steroids that require pain killers and other drugs to take the edge off. It is the kind of pain that cannabis could help with and I am fairly sure would help with but i am not allowed to recommend that because of fucking idiots like you. The drug that she is on is actually a chemical that is very similar to crystal meth, is highly addictive and if she took it long term would seriously mess her up. That is a chemical that has been PRESCRIBED ... her alternative is cheamo therapy ... which is obviously a shit load better than cannabis becuse on weed she might be lucid enough to talk to, she might have fun and laugh instead of being sick due to all her drugs ... you know, she just might.

I have been campaigning for MS sufferers for a long long time, and condition that involves long term chronic pain, such are artritis in fact. The results have been shown to be positive and the tradeoffs to be well worth it.

Do you now begin to appreciate the reality of the nasty kinds of situation you are denying a drug that possibly has many positive effect to? Do you think your irrational fears based on fear mongering newspaper articles that do not in any way attempt to be unbias reporting really should have weight in the argument?

do you think uninformed people (otherwise known as fundementalists - their fundemental belief is that burying your head in the sand and repeating crap thats in the newspapers consitites intelligence and that nobody will see through it) who do not wish to read the available literature on a subject shuold shut up and let the adults do their jobs?

I do.

have a nice day.


Go watch some brass eye ... you remember the CAKE episode? Thats you chump.


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Re: Weed

Postby Unspecified on Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:58 am

This is a complex argument and i appreciate that many people feel strongly about it. In particular Mr Tortoise it must be incredibly frustrating watching your mum suffer and not being able to try something that might help - i cant imagine what that's like, nor would i want to. You both have my sincere sympathies.

I would ask however that the discussion is kept about the topic in question and that nobody starts insulting others on a personal level, though obviously you are free to disagree with and criticise their positions on the topic where they differ from your own.

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Re: Weed

Postby DeanX on Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:01 am

I've majorely cut down on smoking weed, will be zero by the time my baby arrives which i believe is best for me, my girlfriend and of course my little baby what will be my world and everything comes first for baby
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