"Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

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Capital Punishment?

Yes
11
39%
No
16
57%
I don't know, realy
1
4%
 
Total votes : 28

Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Imperium [ESG] on Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:01 pm

Yitue wrote:
Wizav wrote:Prisons are alot more expensive that most people think. The cost to keep a single prisoner in UK prison for a year varies from £15,000 to £40,000 per year depending on the prison. We spend the same ammount of money on keeping prisoners locked up as we do for NHS and Education.



These are shocking numbers TBH


It's meant to be £30k+ for everyone, from what I learnt in RS

imo capital punishment is wrong but understandable. I think the only feasible way of doing it is for re-offenders who are guarenteed to be guilty and of a very serious crime, but if it is a very serious crime you'd have to give them a long sentence in the first place. Unless you resort to corporal punishment. So it's just impractical in honesty and the prison system needs improving whilst another method is needed, possibly the parole equivalent straight off without a prison sentence for minor crimes or community service etc etc (60% of people in prison are in for 12-month or less sentences), which would make it better in general

and xhiea about the pissing people off, spending 15 years of your life in prison makes you insane, suicide (2 a week) or as pissed off, it's hardly a sanctuary
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby *sketch on Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:05 pm

In California and other US states, the cost of adminstering the death penalty is far greater than that of life inprisonment. The economics of it is not even an argument.
And I don't think an island would be any cheaper. The human rights courts would make sure of that.
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Wizav on Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:10 pm

In California and other US states, the cost of adminstering the death penalty is far greater than that of life inprisonment. The economics of it is not even an argument.


That seems a bit odd. Where does all the cost come from?


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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby *sketch on Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:21 pm

Report of the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice

“The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California’s current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually.”

Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.

The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.

The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.

The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.


from http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty. The Cali figures are from '08 I believe.
Every death row inmate has a right to have appeal after appeal, and the cost soon mounts. Again, it's those pesky human rights courts :P
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby R3pT1l3 on Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:00 pm

Voted no
But in some cases I actually would agree with a death sentence
Look at Marc Dutroux here in Belgium
They gave that man a life sentence
Srry to say but for the crimes he comitted
I think they should just shoot him and let him bleed to death
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Yitue on Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:05 pm

R3pT1l3 wrote:Voted no
But in some cases I actually would agree with a death sentence
Look at Marc Dutroux here in Belgium
They gave that man a life sentence
Srry to say but for the crimes he comitted
I think they should just shoot him and let him bleed to death


Agreed about Marc Dutroux...

His crimes were unacceptable to everything that lives...

I mean look him up on the internet...

He isn't even worth my time for typing what he did..
Bloody bastard
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Deathtaker27 on Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:31 pm

my opinion is no

Forgive everyone, do not hold a grudge.
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Yitue on Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:46 pm

Deathtaker27 wrote:my opinion is no

Forgive everyone, do not hold a grudge.


Hmm that's wrong...

If someone lets just say kills your wife and kid you won't forgive him now would you?

You can't forgive everybody

You can't forgive a rapist that raped a girl you don't know, and you still know that some day something can happen to you or someone of your family..

I won't forgive anyone who ever commited a crime.. 90% recomits after prison...
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby R3pT1l3 on Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:52 pm

Well it depends on the crime they commited
Imo a murder can't be forgiven and they should get a sentence
(a death penalty might be a bit to much)
Smaller crimes can be differend..
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Yitue on Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:53 pm

Agreed
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Imperium [ESG] on Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:23 pm

Yitue wrote:You can't forgive everybody

See "Gordon Wilson", it's possible and it's bloody difficult. If it is possible your statement is wrong
Yitue wrote:I won't forgive anyone who ever commited a crime.. 90% recomits after prison...

60%
Deathtaker27 wrote:Forgive everyone, do not hold a grudge.

Interesting view to take - can punishment be justified at all? And have you ever gone against this?

Oh and about Marc Dutroux - when did it become unacceptable? You have to make it several and who are you to say when the borderline is? just a point, and obviously everyone is entitled to an opinion

Edit: Reptile, which crimes are you in favour of death penalty? And are you of certain confidence in the justice system?
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Deathtaker27 on Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:18 am

my view is simple, I forgive everyone, the ones who hurt me, the ones who raped a friend of mine

what do you gain by holding a grudge? only hate and pain?
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby R3pT1l3 on Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:35 am

Well I'm in favour of death penalty in extreme cases like child molesters.
Can punishment be justified at all? Maybe not but you can't just let a murderer go walk free and let him kill again
You'll get pure anarchy that way.

About the borderline imo Dutroux is definitely over that line
I just think a guy like that doesn't deserve to live
would you really forgive someone who did something like that?

The justice system it kinda depends on the country I guess and I really don't know exactly how it works in other countries
I know that in Belgium the time that it take to give someone a trail is way to long mostly takes multiple years before they start.
But I wouldn't change to much to the system
In the US I think some states are tougher on black an native Americans witch isn't the right way ether.

Ether way this is just my opinion if you think other wise I respect that :)
And I admit that maybe I'd think different if a good friend would get arrested for murder or something alike


Edit:
Deathtaker27 wrote:my view is simple, I forgive everyone, the ones who hurt me, the ones who raped a friend of mine

what do you gain by holding a grudge? only hate and pain?

so you never got smacked in the face? :P
really don't think you'd say that if something bad would happen to you or a friend of yours tbh..
.. I know I couldn't
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Wizav on Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:00 pm

See "Gordon Wilson", it's possible and it's bloody difficult. If it is possible your statement is wrong


Aye it is possible to forgive people but its wrong to do so in most cases. If a criminal robs you or kills you and everyone just says"It's ok we forgive you" he'll just do it again the following week and it will give other criminals a free pass.

The reason people commit crime is because they dont think they'll get caught or be punished. And forgiving them will just reinforce that even further.

I think systems that protect the innocent are a big problem too, needing 100% evidence and no doublt to prevent jailing the innocent etc etc, Yeah it sucks but on the other hand loads of criminals are also free. Jailing 1 innocent person is better than letting 10 criminal go free imo.

Im not saying we should just start jailing people on a whim but we need a better system than court. Use lie detectors , hypnosis , truth syrims and so on. Dont really understand why they dont use these things tbh.

A lie detector can tell if Mr.x has murdered Mrs.x alot better than 12 random people and a laywer can surely.


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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby *sketch on Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Lie detectors aren't accurate enough. They can be sometimes cheated by a particularly relaxed (and guilty) person, or show false positives for a (innocent) nervous one.
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Nightwalker on Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:20 pm

Torturing people has a high chance of making their problems even worse! (so please leave that behind)
Death sentence costs more than a lifetime of prison!
(Having no freedom for a long time (prison) is far worse than most people think!)

Just some small arguments here...

edit:
When you kill someone who has done something very wrong, aren't you giving them the easy way out then?
People who have a deathwish might just do very bad things then because they want to and will die anyway. If they might end up in jail for a lifetime they might not do such things. (talking about folks who have the silent wish to do such horrible things but don't since they would get punished, but they would do it if there was no punishment, if they want to die anyway, death sentence is no punishment)
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby R3pT1l3 on Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:35 pm

yea but then again a homeless guy might commit a crime to get free shelter free food free everything ;)
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Imperium [ESG] on Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:48 pm

R3pT1l3 wrote:Can punishment be justified at all? Maybe not but you can't just let a murderer go walk free and let him kill again

Isnt that contradictory? I'm not saying punishment can't be justified nor am i saying it is always justifiable, but you basically just said it can be justified, as long as thats your view its fine just didnt seem clear.

R3pT1l3 wrote:About the borderline imo Dutroux is definitely over that line
I just think a guy like that doesn't deserve to live
would you really forgive someone who did something like that?


I didn't ask about if he was over the borderline, but when does it become unacceptable? Also think of this: if child molesters are wrong, would you say that rape is wrong when the only difference is one is an adult and one is a child? Kids means it is a bit more horrific but you can't say it is so much worse since they are both horrific.

Death pacifism is aninteresting and really respectable choice, kudos.

Nightwalker wrote:Torturing people has a high chance of making their problems even worse! (so please leave that behind)

E.g.? I don't see how any issues are made better by killing someone or by locking them up in a prison for 15 years, considering the 60% re-offence rate the prison reform is just too ineffective.
Nightwalker wrote:Death sentence costs more than a lifetime of prison!

Depends on implementation, the US way isnt the only way

Nightwalker wrote:When you kill someone who has done something very wrong, aren't you giving them the easy way out then?
People who have a deathwish might just do very bad things then because they want to and will die anyway. If they might end up in jail for a lifetime they might not do such things

You are saying no do not kill them since they want suicide. That is not only infrequent (or at least not always the case) but also not an argument. They could kill themselves easier at home and have much less anxiety than waiting years on death row waiting for inevitable death. And if they want to die helping them to do so isnt a bad idea. You are saying they must serve a punishment, and make them suffer in all circumstances. By the same logic, do you agree in sending people in poverty who committed a crime to prison? They would prefer to live in a place where they use up x000£ a year for living which would be loads more than before
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Xhiea on Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:24 pm

R3pT1l3 wrote:yea but then again a homeless guy might commit a crime to get free shelter free food free everything ;)


so i assume you want to get rid of prisons?

fucking great idea.


also, you do realise the last person who was sentenced to death in the UK was found to be innocent after his death. Does that count as murder? should the executioner be sentenced to death?

the death penalty is savage and completely ass-backwards.
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Re: "Capital Punishment" - Tell me your opinion about it

Postby Fung on Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:56 pm

Agreed Xhiea, the risk of a single innocent man being executed is not worth it in my opinion. That would be an even worse form of murder than anything he could have been convicted for. And yet, the revenge for his death would be non-existent. Even if you could morally justify the actions of a jury or judge sending a guilty man to his death, sending an innocent man to his death would be cold blooded murder.

And sending criminals to islands? Aren't there enough people speaking with an Australian accent already?
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