Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby Rico on Sun May 16, 2010 2:48 pm

quaduski wrote:the question was


I answered that.

the content in the () was a sarcastic remake


OK.

quaduski wrote:didn`t you argue that it`s unfair that people were allowed to throw eggs, and not shoes.


No.
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby Gh0st.IRE on Sun May 16, 2010 9:11 pm

If I throw a shoe at someone, And its mistaken as something else (i.e. a rock), and I get injured, Can I then claim that the person who retaliated against my shoe has assaulted me?

To be honest I see this just leading to problems - Why can't muslims just throw eggs as Rico has mentioned in previous posts? If the general populus can throw an egg why do muslims needs some form of special projectile?
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby Rico on Sun May 16, 2010 10:31 pm

I suppose you missed the cultural and symbolic significance of the shoe.
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby quaduski on Mon May 17, 2010 6:49 am

If you had to do everything by the book, which ever one, we would be living in a third world country - or dead. Henery the VIII all is forgiven, please make a return to our lands.

If you want to live under a islam law then live in an islamic country - simples, don`t inflick your racist, sexism and 'religious intolerants' (and other crazy ideas) on the rest of us; for less then 3% of the UK population they make 90% of the noise.

It`s also a bristish cultural and symbolic significance not to throw shoes at people and conduct your protests in a orderly, pieceful maner, not just to go around stoning people or throwing shoes - it`s like being in the dark ages
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby Rico on Mon May 17, 2010 8:04 am

quaduski wrote:less then 3% of the UK population they make 90% of the noise.


It seem to me that you must be in that 3%.

quaduski wrote:It`s also a bristish cultural and symbolic significance not to throw shoes at people and conduct your protests in a orderly, pieceful maner


I guess you weren't around for the miners' strike of 1984, or the Poll Tax riots of 1990, or any of the Brixton riots of the 1980s, or the Toxteth riot of 1981, or the Strangeways riot of 1990, or the 2001 Oldham riots, or the G20 riot of 2009 in London, or the 2009 Belfast or Brighton riots, or the Drumcree riots, or the Broadwater Farm riot -- and those are only the ones I can recall from the past 30 or so years.

And let's not forget the inter-football club gang violence that was particularly prevalent at the end of the last century, but still goes on today. Not protests, admittedly, but it shows that the British are far from reluctant to be anything but peaceful and orderly at times, and certain elements of society are very happy to kick off "for a laugh". We could also cite getting pissed up and fighting on the streets outside the pub/club as having cultural significance.
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby quaduski on Mon May 17, 2010 8:59 am

I think the word RIOTS makes the difference here, and not protests! And yes I`m of an age that has allowed me to live through these times. You seem to me on a high, looking down on us, and I am part of 42% making less demands from the system, because as a whole I`m happy with the UK and what it has done for me. What I`m not happy with is dictatorial demands from an out moded and a long time removed way of religous control in this country - and I am happy to live in a free country, if people wish to get pissed and punch lumps out of each other, that is their choice and as long it doesn`t effect my way of life and others. When this does infringe, then the current system of law and policing maintain the control and prosacute the people to blame, I can see no reason for it to stop (which is why I pay taxes) - I may not like it, but does not mean I am going to start a religous coup to stop it and force others to live under an book written 1300 years ago the. The system could be improved by other means, without taking peoples free will away - which every british person has had the privilege to live under for many years.

Like I said if you wish to live under islam laws then move to a islamic country - saudi arabia or iran, there`s a couple to choose from - saudi arabia is very nice in december, a bit too hot for me in the summer months.

A protest is a place where people are in a heighten state of anger to start with, so what do you think will happen when people start throwing shoes, it equals RIOT. Alot of the RIOTS that have taken place over time were due to how they were policed, which is why the police train (to stop that sort of thing from showing it`s head again - which they cannot always get right)

I cannot understand how football gang warfare, has any bearing on being allowed to throw shoes at people just because one from of violence goes on, doesn`t mean that it is OK for other forms of violence!

And the RIOTS you discriped, most brought about some sort of change.
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby WaitNBleeD on Mon May 17, 2010 9:23 am

And to think................all this crap probably started off in someones back garden :roll: .
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby Rico on Mon May 17, 2010 9:53 am

quaduski wrote:I think the word RIOTS makes the difference here, and not protests!


Riots are just violent protests.

quaduski wrote:I am happy to live in a free country, if people wish to get pissed and punch lumps out of each other, that is their choice and as long it doesn`t effect my way of life and others.


It may not affect your way of life, but it certainly affects the lives of others. Many innocent people are the victims of assault at the hand of drunken yobs. Also, people avoid town centres at night, because the threat of trouble from drunken youths is too great - again, affecting their lives.

Living in a free country is great; and surely includes the freedom to throw shoes. That is their choice, isn't it? As long as it doesn't affect your way of life; and realistically, it doesn't does it?

quaduski wrote:Like I said if you wish to live under islam laws then move to a islamic country


I agree. I'm quite happy living here. And I'm happy to accept some change, too. But there's a limit to that change; my limit might be set higher than yours, and I accept that.

I don't want to live under Islamic laws; nor do I want to live under the laws of any other religion. But that's not what's happening anyway, is it? Has Sharia law been enshrined in the laws of England & Wales or Scotland? Has general British society changed to the extent that we're undifferentiated from a predominantly Islamic nation? Has any law been passed that means all meat must be ritually slaughtered in the name of God? Has gambling been outlawed? Are hands ever amputated as punishment for theft? Do we expect British women to cover themselves from head to toe? Do we stone adulterers?

I don't think any of the above are expected, and certainly not enshrined in UK law. We're not living under Islamic law, nor are things heading that way as far as I can see. If Islamic people want to live under their own laws in the UK, that's fine; as long as it doesn't conflict with the laws of the UK. I would protest as strongly as anyone if, for example, someone in the Muslim community had a hand cut off and those who did it weren't prosecuted. There are limits to what I will tolerate, and I certainly don't argue that "it's cultural" gives carte blanche to ignore the UK's laws. What I will tolerate though, are things which ultimately don't harm anyone or significantly change life in the UK. If Islamic butchers want to slaughter livestock in a particular way, fine. If Muslim women choose to wear traditional dress, fine (although I object to anyone being forced to wear it against her will).

quaduski wrote:I cannot understand how football gang warfare, has any bearing on being allowed to throw shoes at people


You seemed to be suggesting that the British population is unlikely to protest in a violent way. I was simply highlighting the fact that we are actually quite a violent society.
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby WaitNBleeD on Mon May 17, 2010 11:00 am

Rico wrote:Has any law been passed that means all meat must be ritually slaughtered in the name of God?


Just on that note. My town was one of the first in West Yorkshire recently to have it's KFC change to providing halal chicken !!.

It obviously makes no difference to me in the long run, I just find it weird seeing as though they haven't had a problem selling regular chicken since it was founded in 1952 ?!?!?!?.

And no matter how you look at it, there's no denying that that's a change brought about due to a religious belief rather than an actual need.
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby Rico on Mon May 17, 2010 11:17 am

Sure, it's based on a religious belief, but it's a business decision that increases their potential market and has no (obvious) down side. At least, none I can think of. I suppose it might put prices up, but I don't know for sure. Assuming prices remain the same, there's no harm done to anyone, so I couldn't see any reason to be upset by it.

Now, if Christians were forbidden from eating halal meat by their religion, and therefore couldn't eat at that KFC any more, I'd definitely understand if people got pissed off at it

Edit: actually, I did just think of a downside: the previous suppliers of chicken may not now be able to supply it, and find the business goes elsewhere. I could understand them being pissed off by that, but still it's a business decision by that KFC franchisee (I assume, rather than a central edict from KFC).
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby WaitNBleeD on Mon May 17, 2010 11:55 am

Yeah I agree to some extent.

I just find it bizarre that after all this time they felt the need to change. It's rare I eat there anyway as I think KFC is terrible value for money, but if prices did/have gone up then that would be enough to stop me going there completely.

The only thing i'm not sure i'd 100% agree on was your idea that it could have been a business decision.

KFC must have been getting along just great without having to change their supplier of chickens before, and can we seriously believe that KFC didn't know of the existence of the halal process and it's influence on muslim eating habits 20+ years ago?, and the potential growth of it's customer base ??. If they were struggling that bad, they would have made the change a long time ago Imo.

But yeah, hopefully KFC's original supplier has found some way of keeping themselves going :( .
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby Rico on Mon May 17, 2010 12:01 pm

WaitNBleeD wrote:The only thing i'm not sure i'd 100% agree on was your idea that it could have been a business decision.


Well, I don't know how KFC franchises work. I don't know if they have a central supplier, a network of suppliers, or if it's down to each individual outlet. It's quite possible that that specific franchisee decided to use halal meat just so that local muslims could eat there where they couldn't before. It's not necessarily to increase the market (although it would do that as well) -- that's just my assumption. I suppose it's possible there could have been a campaign by local muslims in favour of the change.

And it's not necessarily a case of having to, in order to try and claw in more punters. But if it's a reasonable option to attract a new section of the potential market, it makes sense to do it.
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby WaitNBleeD on Mon May 17, 2010 12:32 pm

Rico wrote:I suppose it's possible there could have been a campaign by local muslims in favour of the change


I think I remember reading in the local free paper that some local muslims had complained about it.

Obviously the other 7 muslim owned KFC style chicken only restaurants in the area weren't enough :roll: . And thats not an assumption, i've seen them all whilst driving through and around town !!.

I should imagine there will be some sort of tikka based coating replacing the colonels usual world famous recipe over the next few months. Why not go the whole hog and also replace the much loved pepsi with mango lassi !!.

The problem is, it usually starts with something small, then over time it snowballs until what you once knew becomes something completely different.

Our favourite local fisheries have been taken over recently as well, they now do fish and chips, donner kebabs, pizzas, samosas. The usual stuff a traditional fish shop would I suppose !!.

Anyway lol, back on topic !!.

No throwing shoes.
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby Rico on Mon May 17, 2010 1:11 pm

I know loads of fish & chip shops that do pizzas, kebabs, etc. It's just business diversification, opening up new markets etc. The more choice you offer, the more likely you can capture someone's custom. And they don't need to be "taken over" for it to happen. Lots of them are owned by whitey! :D
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby Flare on Mon May 17, 2010 3:13 pm

If you ever meet a dutch muslin , run....

(attempt at humour, traditional Dutch shoes were the wooden clogs if I recall correctly).
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby Gh0st.IRE on Mon May 17, 2010 4:01 pm

Rico wrote:I suppose you missed the cultural and symbolic significance of the shoe.

I was not aware that a shoe was a symbol of significance for the faith.

But why do they need some form of special treatment? I've they want to live in the U.K. surely they should obide by your laws and not needs specific ones created for their own culture? If they want Islamic law they should live in Islamic countries?
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby quaduski on Mon May 17, 2010 4:06 pm

As this topic has gone way off track

If 'Islamic protesters' wish to throw shoes at people then the should be subject to the same laws as the rest of the British people, and if by the action of throwing a shoe at a person it causes injury or incites hostile action then they should be prosecuted - depending on the level of harm they inflict.

(an attempt to submit a post without being quoted and then used in an edited or misleading manner, because my opinion doesn`t match your own)

And all because islam thinks the sole of a shoe is unclean in religous terms - unclean, what a great term used by many a lunatic. (I also wonder why they don`t want to throw small dogs in protest as they find them unclean also)

*Warning*

My posts sometimes contain sarcastic remakes or leading statements
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby Gh0st.IRE on Mon May 17, 2010 6:25 pm

Ah I get the whole shoe concept now and quaduski, you come across as if everyone is out to get you. Theres no need for comments trying to make it seem as if people are manipulating your words.

(an attempt to submit a post without being quoted and then used in an edited or misleading manner, because my opinion doesn`t match your own)

My posts sometimes contain sarcastic remakes or leading statements


Honestly, Makes you looks even more of a tool.
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby quaduski on Mon May 17, 2010 9:29 pm

Do you proclaim to know me?

and when did I say that people were out to get me? I just get fed up with all the unnessecry quoting, I know what I have written so while re post it?

the idea of posting a topic, is discussion, if you don`t want to discus the topic, why post on it?

And the fact that you have little to no knowlege on the subject, would suggest you are posting comments in the wrong section. It`s Thinkers Topics - if don`t like my posts then tough shit, you don`t have to read them, no one has forced you read what I have written.

When it comes to debating, personal insult is best sign that people have little more to offer in an argument
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Re: Met allows Islamic protesters to throw shoes. what....

Postby WaitNBleeD on Mon May 17, 2010 10:30 pm

At least the pig is still sacred and untouched by stupid religious nutters, the dirty, disgusting, vile yet wonderfully tasty animal that it is.

And WTF?, of course the bottom of a shoe is deemed as unclean, it has been used for walking around in through all weather and terrains, stupid protesters shouldn't need religion to figure than one out !!.

Thats like saying water is classed as wet, ffs ?!?!?!?!.
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