Religion

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Re: Religion

Postby Skjold on Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:42 am

EWJ wrote:There is no "Worst" religion. If people wish to believe and pray that way then thats entirely up to them.

My only problem with religion is when they try to "convert" you to their beliefs, as this Imho is just wrong.


Never said there is a worst religion. They are basicly a group of jews who hate everyone who doesn't do exactly as they do. I'm not saying being a jew is bad. I'm saying that CULT is. Considering they don't believe in work? :/
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Re: Religion

Postby Skjold on Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:46 am

And uff.. Jehova's witnesses. As God's name is not God, it's JHV. The jews chose to call him Jahva (I think it is) but they may never speak the name. And then there's Jehova's witnesses.. Knocking on people's doors 24/7, trying to convince others that Jehova is great.. If you say no first time, they may bring their young child along, which makes it harder to say no. And if your a guy living alone they'll send insanely stunning looking women, who will then try and convince you. And they keep giving you free stuff -_-
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Re: Religion

Postby EWJ on Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:27 pm

zelpoot wrote:When I was a child, I did something really bad. And I thought I will go to hell when I die. But now, I already know that Lord will always accept you whatever you are. We are always welcome in his home. So let us also welcome him with open arms. We will all go to heaven.



so that means there's no hell? so why have the concept if "god" is all forgiving?
God is a defect of the human genome.
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Re: Religion

Postby Binerexis on Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:10 pm

There are a number of Hebrew names for God and each one is used for different contexts depending on what God is doing (it's like how there are different words for 'love' in Greek depending on what kind of love your're trying to convey). There is one collection of letters which is thought to be the 'true' name of God but, because it's used rarely and not meant to be spoken, it's often disputed on how it's pronounced. If I remember correctly, the widely accepted way is 'Yo-veh'.
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Re: Religion

Postby Wizav on Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:10 pm

When I was a child, I did something really bad. And I thought I will go to hell when I die. But now, I already know that Lord will always accept you whatever you are


Does anyone else see a huge problem with the above?

Im not even sure what this person is getting at, Is it now okay for you to be evil and bad just because god will still accept you? Was you only being good before because you didnt want to goto hell?

Would you also care to explain how you "Already know". Did god send you an email explaining this bit of information?


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Re: Religion

Postby Cotillion on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:02 pm

No the problem is not with 'Already know' but with 'whatever you are' ;)
your personal ignis fatuus
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Re: Religion

Postby EWJ on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:03 pm

aye...

I'm a human, what are you?
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Re: Religion

Postby Binerexis on Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:05 pm

Quick! A Christian posted in the thread so we need to mercilessly take everything they say literally and out of context so we can continue flame baiting and being passive aggressive! The fate of the universe depends on it!
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Re: Religion

Postby Skjold on Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:02 pm

Actually we should avoid flaming in this matter. He can believe in JHV if he wants too. Even if you mean that sarcasticly some people may misunderstand it and start flaming/baiting etc.
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Re: Religion

Postby Cotillion on Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:48 pm

i actually ment my reaction as a joke on the other one for the exact same reason as you are stating Binerexis

although i'm rather philosophical about these matters, life made me a little sarcastic...

but to be serieus and on topic. i really hope there is such a entity as a god and that we can go to heaven. Would be great. although i think i would prefer Valhalla :).
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Re: Religion

Postby EWJ on Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:34 pm

my statement was in no way meant as a flame against anyone..

it was a simple question of his/her statement " whatever you are"...
we are all HUMAN, no matter what colour/creed/sexual orientation


this is MY problem with religion. :(
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Re: Religion

Postby Wizav on Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:46 pm

No the problem is not with 'Already know' but with 'whatever you are'


I think its a problem when people make claims they know what god wants/thinks and truely believe it. George bush admits to invading iraq because god told him to do it. And everyone knows that invasion was BS.


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Re: Religion

Postby Skjold on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:38 pm

True Wizav. I have nothing against people who believe in a religion, but abusing it just for your own good is wrong. Again that's why buddism is better, as there's no God = no one to tell you what to do, therefore if america had been buddist, Bush couldn't have said that :P
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Re: Religion

Postby Wizav on Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:18 pm

I think if america was buddhist bush wouldnt have even got into office, he's a complete moron. The only reason he got elected was because he's a christian.

I agree buddism is the best religion, It's definitely the most peacefull.


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Re: Religion

Postby Binerexis on Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:22 pm

There are a number of factors as to why politicians get elected, to say that it's purely because of their religion is foolish.
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Re: Religion

Postby Valbrandur on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:03 am

Yeah, Bush also had the family name going for him.

I imagine many would be hesitant to vote an atheist as a president though.


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Re: Religion

Postby Mr Tortoise on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:38 pm

I like to believe there's something after death.'


this is false

you cannot imagine anything other because you have not experienced anything other than life.
What you really mean is The only way i can begin to comprehend death is to well imagine it from a position from being alive ...

So now we have explained heaven ...

There is no reason to have a religion. Religin doesnt even provide a basis for morality like so many fuckwits claim.


The only purpose religion has is to control people.

You look at the community spirit ... well that is just people coming together and sharing time together ... just becuse they all happen to have imaginary friends doesnt make it special, it tmakes it scary - especially when this fried is supposed t guide them through life an dprovide inspiration.

Religion has MANY more negative sides than positive, the only morally good option for somone of religion is to denounce their religion (which is TOTALLY independant of faith btw - see point 1 for that).


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Re: Religion

Postby lockwyn on Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:34 pm

Christopher Hitchens quotes on religion:

"Religious exhortation and telling people, telling children, that if they don’t do the right thing, they’ll go to terrifying punishments or unbelievable rewards, that’s making a living out of lying to children. That’s what the priesthood do. And if all they did was lie to the children, it would be bad enough. But they rape them and torture them and then hope we’ll call it ‘abuse’ ".

"People are frightened of death, and the central lie of all religion is that there’s a cure for this and an exception we’ve made in your own case: an eternal life offered if you make the right propitiations and the right abjections. Well, I’m sorry. I think that it's the height of immorality to lie to people like that. That’s why [religion] survives.”

"[Religious belief] is a totalitarian belief. It is the wish to be a slave. It is the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, tyrannical authority who can convict you of thought crime while you are asleep, who can subject you - who must, indeed, subject you - to total surveillance around the clock every waking and sleeping minute of your life - I say, of your life - before you're born and, even worse and where the real fun begins, after you're dead. A celestial North Korea. Who wants this to be true? Who but a slave desires such a ghastly fate? I've been to North Korea. It has a dead man as its president, Kim Jong-Il is only head of the party and head of the army. He's not head of the state. That office belongs to his deceased father, Kim Il-Sung. It's a necrocracy, a thanatocracy. It's one short of a trinity I might add. The son is the reincarnation of the father. It is the most revolting and utter and absolute and heartless tyranny the human species has ever evolved. But at least you can fucking die and leave North Korea!"
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Re: Religion

Postby Useless² on Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:17 am

Mr Tortoise wrote:I like to believe there's something after death.'


this is false

you cannot imagine anything other because you have not experienced anything other than life.
What you really mean is The only way i can begin to comprehend death is to well imagine it from a position from being alive ...

So now we have explained heaven ...

There is no reason to have a religion. Religin doesnt even provide a basis for morality like so many fuckwits claim.


The only purpose religion has is to control people.

You look at the community spirit ... well that is just people coming together and sharing time together ... just becuse they all happen to have imaginary friends doesnt make it special, it tmakes it scary - especially when this fried is supposed t guide them through life an dprovide inspiration.

Religion has MANY more negative sides than positive, the only morally good option for somone of religion is to denounce their religion (which is TOTALLY independant of faith btw - see point 1 for that).


See we are trying to have a nice discussion about this but when you started calling people "fuckwits" and likening peoples gods to "imaginary friends" all premise of a friendly debate went out the window. Now the wording you used has really got my back up as Im sure you can tell, as to me it doesnt look like your here for a friendly debate and more to chastise people for not believing exactly what you do.

So to follow on from your arguments, here are mine (incoming wall of text, this is as short as I could make it, sorry);

1 "Explained heaven"

Firstly you use "I like to believe there's something after death." then call it false, who are you to judge other peoples beliefs on this subject, if it does or even if it doesnt exist why does that matter to you?
Secondly "What you really mean is The only way I can begin to comprehend death is to well imagine it from a position from being alive" isnt this what your doing, unless youve already been dead, how can YOU know? and how is your opinion any more informed than ours?


2"Religion is not a base for morality"

Firstly what is morality, "conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct." So following rules you believe are right, now everyones moral codes are different thats granted but on what do you base your own views of right and wrong?
Parents are usually a big player in this as theyve brought you up to their code but this is also usually influenced by the community you live in believes. If you were brought up by parents in a tribe that believe cannibalism is OK then you will believe that eating people is moral.
So in short everything is a base for morality, its up to you whether you want to include it in your moral code or not, and you could do alot worse than religion in discovering your own code. As it seems you have by your broad labeling of people who believe this as 'fuckwits', is this moral?

3 "The only purpose religion has is to control people"

This rebuttal is a short and simple one. Laws are also to control people are you going to 'fight the power' on that too?

4 "Imaginary friends"

While I hate having to use that as a paragraph title its the biggest point you made in that section...
"Community spirit [...] well that is just people coming together and sharing time together" this is one point I will agree on, although there is also much more to it. But I surmise (possibly wrongly) the point your are trying to cover is the community spirit of the church (rather than the community spirit of your town/city), and I honestly struggle to see why you would try to pull this down.
How many charity events are organised by your churches at home? now compare this to how many charity events are organised by people who arent in the religious community? So when this group is trying to do right by the world rather than just settling on their own needs does it matter that their 'imaginary friend' told them to do it? Does the fact that they try to help others also make it scary?
And my final point on this section, the fact that they go to their god for inspiration makes them crazy. Inspiration is found in many different forms none of which is more or less important than the others, some find inspiration in songs, some in videos, some in books, and others in holy books, is it really that different?

5 "Religion [...] more negative than positive"

Religion has "MANY" more downsides, the few I can think of is religious wars and that this acts contrary to what most religions want, and the people who have done bad stuff and hide behind their religion. You know "MANY" so I ask you to elaborate on this point, please.
My favorite part of this is that the "the only morally good option for somone of religion is to denounce their religion" this is laughable and only goes to prove you dont really know what morality is, so as I have already explained morals are the code to which you live your OWN life but is usually also guided by outside influences. So while this may be 'moral' to you, it is in no way shape or form moral to me.

Now when/if you reply to me MrTortoise please do it in a less troll like fashion, and hopefully we can turn this back into a discussion rather than 'heres my views, and if you dont agree your a fuckwit'

(when arguing on the internet, I try to be as far away from keyboard warrior as possible and end up sounding like a lawyer, can you tell? :D )
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Re: Religion

Postby Kaelan002 on Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:54 am

my beliefs

there is no "superior being" and when you die you die , thats it.
I also believe that you should be nice to people just because its nice really. Not because god tells you to.

thats it really :)

now i think its fine if someone wants to believe differently as long as they dont try to convince me that im wrong and start telling me about how god can help me etc. etc.

And it is no excuse to do something that influences others, just because your religion says so. If it just benefits you like not wanting to eat pork fine, but not if they try to make someone else not eat pork.

last thing i think people should adapt their religions to suit the modern world (now im not picking on the pork thing, its just the first thing i thought of). Now one religion (forgotten which one) states that you should harm yourself (or others) now in the olden days pork was hard to keep fresh and went of really easily, so you had a high probability or getting food poisoning and "injuring yourself" hence the no pork belief.
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