Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

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Should Marijuana be regulated like alcohol?

Yes
45
70%
No
11
17%
I'm not sure
8
13%
 
Total votes : 64

Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby ApacheFlame on Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:41 am

MakeNine wrote:...also providing medical services to addicts, as said previously.


The NHS spends millions currently on treating the immediate effects of drugs and rehab programs. I am certain this would go up to an unsustainable level if all drugs were legalised. I am also certain that this would not scale with the level of taxation on drugs.

If you tax drugs to cover the cost of increased NHS usage then eventually the cost would be prohibitive to most and so they would end up buying illegal stuff, which considering the poor drug barons have nearly been put out of business would be cut with all sorts of rat poison. See where the vicious circle is forming here?

'Wont they stop using?' I hear you cry. Well that's the thing about drugs. They are just so damn more-ish. Once hooked (Any drug can be addictive, even if it is only a self induced psychological addiction) they will keep buying.
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby MakeNine on Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:32 pm

ApacheFlame wrote:
The NHS spends millions currently on treating the immediate effects of drugs and rehab programs. I am certain this would go up to an unsustainable level if all drugs were legalised. I am also certain that this would not scale with the level of taxation on drugs.

If you tax drugs to cover the cost of increased NHS usage then eventually the cost would be prohibitive to most and so they would end up buying illegal stuff, which considering the poor drug barons have nearly been put out of business would be cut with all sorts of rat poison. See where the vicious circle is forming here?

'Wont they stop using?' I hear you cry. Well that's the thing about drugs. They are just so damn more-ish. Once hooked (Any drug can be addictive, even if it is only a self induced psychological addiction) they will keep buying.


I see what you mean. In my opinion, there will always be people who will use hard drugs no matter what, and they will end up as addicts. I just think it's ridiculous to treat people as criminals because they ingested a particular chemical compound. But then you have the problem of drug dealers who threaten addicts and force them to stay on drugs to keep the income flowing.

But repression and the 'war on drugs' is a failure, drug use is still widespread in all layers of society. You have the junkies in the slums and millionaire pop stars addicted to heroin.


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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby Wombat on Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:39 pm

Well, i've been living in a country where it is legalized (Holland) for almost all my life. Couple of views:

- Yes, it is very bad for you, as syco cocker already stated, especially for your brain. So, comparing it to alcohol or smoke makes no sense to me. Sure, they are all bad, but theres no point in comparing them. Threat each differently

- Be aware of the social consequences. Weed, although maybe not having a physical impact on you, will change your social position. You will become lazy, apathic and easily susceptible for mental disorders. People who have a born tendency towards this (which is a substantial part of our population) will have a high risk of severe psychiological problems. Believe me, I've seen alot of it.

- When it was still illegal, weed was also regarded as a 'cool' thing under young people. Once legalized, after the initial peek, that has settled down and it is presently not more or less cool than smoking, for that matter. For that reason, I think legalization has worked.

- Legalization opens up a lot of options on regulation, taxation, quality control etc... I mean, it is there, like it or not. Better accept the fact it exists and deal with it (by that I mean the government, not the criminals... :P). The ostridge approach will just not work (it never does...).

Therefore I voted yes
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby Primal ShadoW on Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:26 pm

It's not healthy, period, then why allow it?

Sure, alcohol and tobacco is more harmful, but that's no excuse for allowing another drug. Also, as mentioned above, why on earth do you have to compare it to everything in order to make up your mind. Look at marijuana as it is. It turns you into Mr. Slowpoke and probably causes addiction.

No thanks.


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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby WAR on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:35 pm

EWJ wrote:
all without exception have memory like a sieve


case in point my friend Johnny.. been smoking ONLY marijuana since a teenager and has trouble remembering the simplest things...


There's been many people that have been drinking since their teens, they now suffer from liver cancer and are probably dead.

Compared to alcohol, weed is less dangerous, naturally anything you smoke is going to harm your lungs and cause cancer.

Also the legalization would save money and put it to something useful... rehabilitation clinics, other forms of help to get the addicts off drugs, right now there isn't much money being plugged into that side of things, which is a shame, because it would do more than running around arresting everyone that has got it.
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby Binerexis on Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:52 pm

Primal ShadoW wrote:It's not healthy, period, then why allow it?


Because we're adults who can choose for ourselves what we want to put in our bodies.
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby Primal ShadoW on Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:02 pm

And I can bet a ton of people won't know the consequences of marijuana and suffer from it. Your statement comes off as relatively selfish to me. You can't rely on everyone being as informed as yourself.


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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby Binerexis on Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:18 am

If people want to take drugs without being informed then that's their choice. Slap a sticker on it similar to to cigarettes and make a website similar to drinkaware which no one will ever go to.

"Marijuana may lead to ill mental health to those with a history of ill mental health."
"Marijuana may cause memory loss."
"Excessive marijuana use may cause psychological dependency."

There are three warnings that you could put on packs of marijuana cigarettes to make people as informed as they are of the risks of inhaling tobacco. Couple those warnings with the legal restrictions of alcohol (be over eighteen, don't DUI) and we should be golden.
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby Primal ShadoW on Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:08 pm

Have the warnings put on cigarette packs decreased the number of smokers (not rhetorical, I'm actually wondering)? I view the cigarette warnings just as a formal thing the authorities "just had to" slap on the cartons because some important people in Brussels wanted to come off as caring.

Also there's no doubt that if marijuana was allowed the number of deaths related to it will rise. I don't see the necessity of some people having their "fix" legally while others undoubtedly will suffer.


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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby WAR on Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:56 pm

Nobody has died from cannabis :/
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby ApacheFlame on Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:21 pm

They just end up with a larger than average chance of developing mental illness.

If they throw themselves off a bridge because they cant deal with schizophrenia or other mental illness they have developed then the cause of death would be suicide potentially also recorded as caused by mental instability. Despite the fact that the probably developed the illness that drove them to it through smoking cannabis. The cannabis may be a root cause, but the cause noted would not drill back that far.

The mental side effects produce a chronic effect which whereas with cases of alcohol overdose where there is sudden death it is recorded that they aspirated on their own vomit due to alcohol intoxication. The only similar argument would be smoking. Whereas that falls down in some ways as we have been programmed to think that death by lung cancer means that they were probably a smoker, which would also be recorded in patient history. +1 for the smoking kills campaign.

There is no such similar thought with the cannabis argument. Mental illness can develop from a variety of causes, where as lung cancer really only has 2 common ones, metastasise of a primary tumour site or it is the primary tumour site caused by smoking.

It is a stupid argument that I see all the time in these types of discussion. Just because it isn't recorded as the primary cause of death does not mean that it is not the root cause.
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby MakeNine on Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:04 pm

Primal ShadoW wrote:Also there's no doubt that if marijuana was allowed the number of deaths related to it will rise. I don't see the necessity of some people having their "fix" legally while others undoubtedly will suffer.


Smokers will use cannabis whether it's allowed or not. Teenagers will dry all kinds of drugs and actually might try the illegal ones just because they are illegal.


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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby Primal ShadoW on Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:28 pm

Well, I would say you could turn that the completely opposite way. Many teenagers will try it because it's illegal, but once it's legal many other teenagers will try it too. I'm not opposed to the actual smoking of marijuana, since if you want it you'll get it anyway. But once it's legalized I just imagine it having worse consequences than if it's illegal.


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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby MakeNine on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:52 pm

Primal ShadoW wrote:Well, I would say you could turn that the completely opposite way. Many teenagers will try it because it's illegal, but once it's legal many other teenagers will try it too. I'm not opposed to the actual smoking of marijuana, since if you want it you'll get it anyway. But once it's legalized I just imagine it having worse consequences than if it's illegal.


Exactly, so what's the point in spending money to send these people to jail or write dozens of pages of laws to define how they are to be fined ,etc. Also i'm sure going to jail must be a lot worse than smoking cannabis :P


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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby Shuriken on Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:37 am

I voted yes.

Studies so far have shown that predisposition to a condition is a primary factor in developing associated health issues. There's no way to clone a person and have them live the exact same life but with one of them smoking cannabis, so the results that some people want are likely to never happen. Anything you interact with can cause a psychological dependency, that's no reason to prohibit anything. Other than the mental attachment it's a non-addictive substance, unlike tobacco and alcohol. Studies have also shown medical BENEFITS to the drug, though with the new law banning a range of herbal medicines in this country we're unlikely to see that front emerge here.

The memory argument is invalid also, as proven by dozens of people who have been smoking for 50+ years that are sharper of mind than any "straight-edge" people I know, of all ages.

Abuse of any substance can cause negative side effects, sure if someone is stoned constantly, they're likely to develop problems. Just like alcoholics who wake up and have a drink for breakfast, elevenses, brunch, lunch, an afternoon snack, dinner, dessert, supper, and a nightcap. Even excessive water is bad for you, people need to learn to moderate but to learn that they need to be given the choice in the first place.

From a toxicology point of view, you would have to ingest, not smoke, more cannabis than you could physically fit inside you for prolonged periods of time to die from it. That argument is invalid. As for it's possible carcinogenicity, they still haven't ruled coffee off that list....

From a financial standpoint, the costs to care for people who abuse cannabis and then suffer possible consequences would be a fraction of the money saved on the witch-hunting, prosecuting and detainment of growers and sellers. Not to mention the boost to the economy countries would have from the tax on the high percentage (more than 50% of the UK) that smokes on a semi-regular basis, the plethora of jobs it would create in the farming/marketing/catering/textiles and tourism industries. This far outweighs the costs of prohibition and that's not including the secondary elements of each industry having more capital or the reduced costs of prisons and the space freed within from releasing people for what is essentially farming. It's practically a guaranteed financial defecit recovery and there'd be at least a smalller need to build more prisons that cost taxpayers money to keep criminals alive but out of sight.

It's only "not healthy" if you smoke it (not the only ingestion method available) in abundance, funnily enough, oxygen is more fatal in abundance and all you have to do to abuse that is hyperventilate...

Sure, if it was widespread then you have the potential risk of incurring more related incidents, like driving under the influence. You would have to weigh such arguments against the fact that people are less likely to want to move, let alone drive, in the first place, while under the influence.
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby Kez on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:25 pm

I am on the fence on this one people. Here is why:

Studies have shown that cannabis is more likely to cause psychosis in people who use it for long periods of time, it is also believed to be more damaging to younger people (under the age of 21) due to the fact that your brain is maturing the most during these ages. If I believed that making it only available to people over the age of 21 and that people under the age of 21 wouldnt be able to get their hands on it then I would almost certainly back the idea to legalise it. However if it was made legal only to those over the age of 21 then you can be sure that people under this safer age would have an easier time of getting their hands on it. And those that would be discouraged from trying the drug because it is totally illegal at all ages (unlike alcohol for example) would no longer have this psychological barrier that would prevent them from doing so.

In total I am sure that you would see an increase in the amount of people under the age of 21 taking cannabis even if it was not legal for them to obtain it. This would then increase the number of young people that would continue taking the drug for longer periods of time and ultimately it would increase cases of psychotic disease in the population (the most well known being schizophrenia). I have met many people who have mental diseases of this nature and believe me when I tell you that it completely ruins people's lives. People are at their most vulnerable at this age and it is a time in our lives where many of us will admit to making decisions that we regret later on, some with significant consequences. I believe that if cannabis was legalised you would see more young people that could potentially have their lives ruined by being exposed to this drug when it can do the most harm.

I'll just finishing by saying that I agree with a lot of the points that support the legalisation; the positive effect on the economy, the ability to redirect money being used to lock people up, the protection of the individual's liberties as well as the destruction of the organised crime that is funded by black market cannabis sales are all great points. There is however a price for all this, and I believe that it is the argument above, so if you think that it is a price that society can burden in return for all the positives then that is fair enough, I am not entirely sure which is why I am not for or against, but will put my hands up and say I just don't knooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby Shuriken on Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:14 pm

You do bring up fair points but all results have shown a requirement for a predisposition to the affliction to be aquirable and even in these cases, there are those who show signs of predisposition without any effect. Increased exposure would find more people with these problems surely, research would have to be taken into consideration to determine the predisposition of each individual and there are studies being done in this area that are coming on in leaps and bounds. Ingesting cannabis won't give you schizophrenia. Ingesting cannabis has a chance, if you're predisposed to the condition, give you schizophrenia. So yes, legalising it would make cases of this kind more apparent, just like the widespread use of alcohol highlighted those who are allergic to it. It also inspired decades of knowledge in its related medicinal fields that wouldn't have been touched upon otherwise. Necessity is the mother of all invention, while the initial fallout period has the potential to be rather ugly, the long-term benefits far outweigh what amounts to making a 50/50 bet on people who already have a 50/50 chance of developing associated illnesses.
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby jihn on Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:57 pm

Im sure my liver would be very happy if cannabis was made legal.

Shuriken makes a good argument :)
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby re# Skilgannon on Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:51 am

having worked as a psychiatric nurse in secure units and addiction centres I have seen the damage that even weed can do, the individual tends not to notice, its the family and friends that suffer

am mixed on this one, yes we should all have free choice about what we do with our bodies but sadly the exercising of that free choice can cause a lot of pain and heartache
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Re: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana

Postby BelovedKiller on Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:05 pm

I say yes..
studies show that the netherlands has less of a problem with the more serious drugs (LSD, Cocaine, Heroin, etc) and has weed legal..

and i also believe that people should have the freedom to screw themselves over.. If they want to get so high that they think they can fly, i say Let them!
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