Animal Cruelty Movie

This forum is for posting meaningful and serious ideas and questions. Can be about interests, observations or serious matters of the world. If it doesn't fit that category, don't post here! Serious posts only.

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby BelovedKiller on Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:08 am

This video seems rather provocative to me.. It only shows one half of the story, so i would hardly call it reality..

It also ignores the fact that lust for meats stops animals going extinct..

Pigs, cows, Chickens.. the stuff we eat is in plentiful supply.. If someone wanted a polar bear burger every once in a while, they would be farmed.. thereby guaranteeing survival..

anyway, amusements aside..

Stuff like this is ALWAYS gonna happen.. It's inevitable.. be it Human against human, or human against animal..
Suffering is a part of life.. Just as pain, happiness, hunger, Love, etc are..
Image
User avatar
BelovedKiller
UKCS Life Sponsor
 
Player: 제트별 - 冻住,不许走!
STEAM_0:0:22867374
 
Posts: 1057
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:26 pm



Image

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby Wizav on Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:11 am

Nature is cruel by default and we happen to be top of the food chain, i don't see why we need to be sympathetic or apologize for it, Go into the wild and see how protected and sympathetic predators are of you while there eating you alive. If pigs and cows had teeth and ate meat they would treat you no different so why should we treat them any different.

There's millions of human beings on this planet dieing of hunger and poverty and feeding them trumps giving animals better food and a nice back yard to play in. At the end of the day it's food and product, nothing more. It's the one and only reason those species of animal even still exist.

It actually pisses me off that some organic farm animals have better lifestyles and living conditions than millions of people. I mean seriously wtf it's just food.


Wizav
UKCS Sponsor
 
Player: Wizav
STEAM_1:3:666666
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby Wombat on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:18 am

Wizav wrote:Nature is cruel by default and we happen to be top of the food chain, i don't see why we need to be sympathetic or apologize for it, Go into the wild and see how protected and sympathetic predators are of you while there eating you alive. If pigs and cows had teeth and ate meat they would treat you no different so why should we treat them any different.

Humans are far more cruel than any kind of animal. Sure, you would be eaten in the wild. However, you would not be kept in a 1x1m cage for months going crazy of stress to be fattened for slaughter or kept your whole life with a permanent wound in your side so they could drain your gall blatter...

Wizav wrote:It actually pisses me off that some organic farm animals have better lifestyles and living conditions than millions of people. I mean seriously wtf it's just food.

Wrong again. Apart from the (in my opinion) absolutely stupid expression of calling them just food, sustainable farming is actually a (if not the) solution for the world food issues, not part of the problem.

1. The food problem in the world has nothing to do with quantity. There is plenty of food in the world, the only problem is distribution. If you look at recent reports and strategy plans of the FAO or WFP, their main focus is distribution, not production.

2. Bio-industry in the western part of the world is a major contributor to the food distribution issue. Because of the insanely low prices of this (absolute trash) meat, farmers in the poorer regions of the world cannot compete against it and go out of business, creating economic and thus food problems there.

3. To produce 1 KG of meat, requires 50KG of natural food. So, the meat production is the biggest waste of energy and food on the planet at the moment. Not only this (i'm not completely against eating meat), but the Soy production in for example Latin America, which feeds all our bio-industry cows and pigs, is a massive problem there. Land conflicts, violent criminality, so much pesticide use that the land is not usable anymore for many years. So, with our nice meat industry here, we are effectively destroying the possibilities for Latin America to be able to produce their own food.

4. Protein food sources are one of the most ineffective food sources, as well as not very healthy. Long term policy of the UN food organizations focusses also on reducing the protein rich diet of the western society in order to 1, establish better food distribution across the globe and 2, battle the growing health issues in the western world.
- Obesity. The percentage of which is growing alarmingly fast, with the accompanying health risks (for UK, 42% of men and 32% of women (2008, source: NHS) and growing fast!).
- Epidemics because of too intense breeding, causing genetic mutations and weakening the natural resistance of animals (Foot and Mouth outbreaks (UK: 1967, 2001, 2007), Mad cow disease (all over europe/world), Salmonella outbreaks and many more)
- Decreased natural resistance of people because of the amount of pesticides, hormones and antibiotics used in the conventional meat industry.

Sustainable farming is an answer to this why:

1. If we threat nature (animals AND plants AND soil) in a respectful and intelligent way, we make sure that in 200 years, we can still rely on nature to feed us, in stead of destroying everything around us as we do today.

2. Sustainable agriculture is the solution to food problems in the 3rd world. If we would stop exploiting 3rd world countries as source of cheap raw materials for our meat industry, they could actually start producing food for themselves and the local community. Since sustainable agriculture does not lean on pesticides (very expensive there) but on more manual labour (very cheap there), it is an effective way to develop those regions in order to produce food but also get a fair price for it.

3. Is far less (or not at all) affected by the health risks mentioned above.


So, I suggest you educate yourself a little more before making short-sighted statements like that. Classifying anything we eat as "just food" is wrong in my opinion, as food is our primary need for existence so therefore of vital importance. For that reason alone, animals, but also all other food and nature providing it, should be treated with respect.
If you smile at life, life will smile back!
User avatar
Wombat
UKCS Life Sponsor
 
Player: [RS]Wombat
STEAM_0:0:516408
 
Posts: 2895
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:11 pm
Location: The point, where else...



Image

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby Wizav on Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:46 pm

1. The food problem in the world has nothing to do with quantity. There is plenty of food in the world, the only problem is distribution. If you look at recent reports and strategy plans of the FAO or WFP, their main focus is distribution, not production.


Source?

According to David Attenborough and Nasa we have already hit the aggricultural limit and population growth is still increasing we will soon no longer be able to support human population on earth. Hence China and India 1 child policies.

2. Bio-industry in the western part of the world is a major contributor to the food distribution issue. Because of the insanely low prices of this (absolute trash) meat, farmers in the poorer regions of the world cannot compete against it and go out of business, creating economic and thus food problems there.


Source?

1.2 billion people don't even have access to water i'm pretty sure meat prices aren't the reason there going hungry. They also severly lack ariable land. They can't farm regardless of the prices.

3. To produce 1 KG of meat, requires 50KG of natural food. So, the meat production is the biggest waste of energy and food on the planet at the moment. Not only this (i'm not completely against eating meat), but the Soy production in for example Latin America, which feeds all our bio-industry cows and pigs, is a massive problem there. Land conflicts, violent criminality, so much pesticide use that the land is not usable anymore for many years. So, with our nice meat industry here, we are effectively destroying the possibilities for Latin America to be able to produce their own food.


again Source?

From what ive read and seen It's only a deforestation problem, Cutting down forests for soy plantations. The Biggest producers of Soy in the world are Americans which produce alot more than latin countries. The only two latin countries that produce alot of soy are Brazil and Argentina and there not exactly struggling. Brazil are 7th on Global GPD and alot richer than most european and asian countries, as is Argentina.

4. Protein food sources are one of the most ineffective food sources, as well as not very healthy. Long term policy of the UN food organizations focusses also on reducing the protein rich diet of the western society in order to 1, establish better food distribution across the globe and 2, battle the growing health issues in the western world.
- Obesity. The percentage of which is growing alarmingly fast, with the accompanying health risks (for UK, 42% of men and 32% of women (2008, source: NHS) and growing fast!).
- Epidemics because of too intense breeding, causing genetic mutations and weakening the natural resistance of animals (Foot and Mouth outbreaks (UK: 1967, 2001, 2007), Mad cow disease (all over europe/world), Salmonella outbreaks and many more)
- Decreased natural resistance of people because of the amount of pesticides, hormones and antibiotics used in the conventional meat industry.


Protein makes up 16% of the human body, It's not ineffective or unhealthy lol it's almost vital. Hence the huge supplement industry for vegans due to lack of decent protein foods, calcium , b12 vitamins , zinc and so on. Most vegan's are frail and weak as shit and have to scoff down power pills, most of them look ill and unhealthy as well. And obesity is caused by people not the food, If someone sits in mcdonalds and chomps on 8 big macs it's there own fault. Exercise wouldn't go a miss either.

All of your arguments scream Vegan propaganda and bias.


Wizav
UKCS Sponsor
 
Player: Wizav
STEAM_1:3:666666
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby Binerexis on Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:53 pm

The source for distribution of food being the problem as opposed to quantity of it is the glaringly obvious fact that in England, for example, we can waste food quite easily and there's always an available supply. The same isn't true for countries where a large chunk of people are still dying from starvation.
"Everyone just shut up and enjoy your arena."
"...But we don't enjoy aren-"
"SHUT UP AND ENJOY YOUR ARENA!"
Image
Part three of my quest to lose my sanity

"Bin would get my Unusual hatz since he's the coolest, bravest, smartest and toughest admin." - Bruce Willis
User avatar
Binerexis
Old Timer
UKCS iSeries Attendee
 
Player: Extrodisian
STEAM_0:0:19678834
 
Posts: 5282
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:58 pm
Location: The North



Image

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby Wizav on Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:36 pm

Binerexis wrote:The source for distribution of food being the problem as opposed to quantity of it is the glaringly obvious fact that in England, for example, we can waste food quite easily and there's always an available supply. The same isn't true for countries where a large chunk of people are still dying from starvation.


Population of UK is 0.9% of the worlds total population, USA making up 4.5% of the population.

I'm not entirely sure how much food we waste but i'd say it's about 30-40% of how much we consume which is probably an exaggeration. At best the waste we produce could feed another 2-3% of the worlds population. Which still leaves billions starving

You make it sound as if we own the worlds food supply.


Wizav
UKCS Sponsor
 
Player: Wizav
STEAM_1:3:666666
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby Wombat on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:11 pm

Wizav wrote:
1. The food problem in the world has nothing to do with quantity. There is plenty of food in the world, the only problem is distribution. If you look at recent reports and strategy plans of the FAO or WFP, their main focus is distribution, not production.


Source?


- Let's start with an easy to read one: http://www.fao.org/hunger/en/
- or The State of Food security 2011
- especially interesting: The state of Food security 2004 as the recent ones cover more on the economic crisis.
Actually, Food distribution is one of the main topics in the Committee on World Food Security summit, held here in Rome in a few days.

Wizav wrote:According to David Attenborough and Nasa we have already hit the aggricultural limit and population growth is still increasing we will soon no longer be able to support human population on earth. Hence China and India 1 child policies.


Would be interesting to know where they get that from, as I cannot imagine they have more data than FAO... Also, Nasa is hardly an objective organizations (and has nothing to do with food) and David Attenborough, however interesting to listen to, I would also not describe as THE oracle of global food economics.

Wizav wrote:
2. Bio-industry in the western part of the world is a major contributor to the food distribution issue. Because of the insanely low prices of this (absolute trash) meat, farmers in the poorer regions of the world cannot compete against it and go out of business, creating economic and thus food problems there.


Source?


- Modern Agriculture: Ecological impacts and the possibilities for truly sustainable farming (Article from the Berkely University Agroecology project)
- Very famous publication of FAO: Livestock's long shadow Though mainly covering the ecological impact, it also speaks of the economical impact of Livestock production.


Wizav wrote:1.2 billion people don't even have access to water i'm pretty sure meat prices aren't the reason there going hungry. They also severly lack ariable land. They can't farm regardless of the prices.


Interesting but also without source. UNICEF has quite different figures and also note that drinking and sanitation water is not the same as water needed for agriculture. The fact they lack land is mainly caused by the 'land grabbing' activities by the big western producers claiming a win/win situation
source:
- Africa’s changing landscape: Securing land access for the rural poor
- The great land grab
or http://www.google.com -> land grabbing


Wizav wrote:
3. To produce 1 KG of meat, requires 50KG of natural food. So, the meat production is the biggest waste of energy and food on the planet at the moment. Not only this (i'm not completely against eating meat), but the Soy production in for example Latin America, which feeds all our bio-industry cows and pigs, is a massive problem there. Land conflicts, violent criminality, so much pesticide use that the land is not usable anymore for many years. So, with our nice meat industry here, we are effectively destroying the possibilities for Latin America to be able to produce their own food.


again Source?

From what ive read and seen It's only a deforestation problem, Cutting down forests for soy plantations. The Biggest producers of Soy in the world are Americans which produce alot more than latin countries. The only two latin countries that produce alot of soy are Brazil and Argentina and there not exactly struggling. Brazil are 7th on Global GPD and alot richer than most european and asian countries, as is Argentina.


See above on land grabbing for example, the previously mentioned Livestock's long shadow report or The state of food and agriculture 2009 (subtitled livestock in the balance)

Wizav wrote:
4. Protein food sources are one of the most ineffective food sources, as well as not very healthy. Long term policy of the UN food organizations focusses also on reducing the protein rich diet of the western society in order to 1, establish better food distribution across the globe and 2, battle the growing health issues in the western world.
- Obesity. The percentage of which is growing alarmingly fast, with the accompanying health risks (for UK, 42% of men and 32% of women (2008, source: NHS) and growing fast!).
- Epidemics because of too intense breeding, causing genetic mutations and weakening the natural resistance of animals (Foot and Mouth outbreaks (UK: 1967, 2001, 2007), Mad cow disease (all over europe/world), Salmonella outbreaks and many more)
- Decreased natural resistance of people because of the amount of pesticides, hormones and antibiotics used in the conventional meat industry.


Protein makes up 16% of the human body, It's not ineffective or unhealthy lol it's almost vital. Hence the huge supplement industry for vegans due to lack of decent protein foods, calcium , b12 vitamins , zinc and so on. Most vegan's are frail and weak as shit and have to scoff down power pills, most of them look ill and unhealthy as well. And obesity is caused by people not the food, If someone sits in mcdonalds and chomps on 8 big macs it's there own fault. Exercise wouldn't go a miss either.


Protein is of course vital but not in the quantities we consume it. Together with the obvious lack of exercise problem, it is a main contributor to the worlds growing obesity. I am a vegetarian, and have never in my life eaten any food supplements. I can tell you, I function absolutely fine.
I went trough green beret training, meaning some of the heaviest (military) training in the world, which I think can serve as an adequate test of my body...

Wizav wrote:All of your arguments scream Vegan propaganda and bias.


I have never said anywhere I want everyone to be a vegetarian. I merely stated that eating meat is not a very effective way of consuming food. However, most of my arguments are focussed on the bigger picture of global food issues.
The coming decades will be very interesting and challenging in terms of the development of the agricultural sector. Economical demands but also increasing ecological demands require us to rethink the way we use the earths resources to ensure we still have enough of those resources in 50 or 500 years. Treating nature with respect is in my opinion the first step, as it means appreciating the value of nature for just that purpose.

In my professional life, I have worked and still work closely related to the food and agriculture sector. I spend quite some time here in Rome in the offices of the 3 UN organizations related to food being FAO, WFP and IFAD. So, if you want to regard me as some biased hobby-vegan protester, go right ahead. I hope some of the other readers of this topic will have a bit more open minds and not react so "vegan-phobic" defensive.
If you smile at life, life will smile back!
User avatar
Wombat
UKCS Life Sponsor
 
Player: [RS]Wombat
STEAM_0:0:516408
 
Posts: 2895
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:11 pm
Location: The point, where else...



Image

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby Binerexis on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:27 pm

Wizav wrote:You make it sound as if we own the worlds food supply.


If that's what you took away from my post then that's up to you. All I did was state that we have more food than we need in England whereas that isn't the case in other countries.
"Everyone just shut up and enjoy your arena."
"...But we don't enjoy aren-"
"SHUT UP AND ENJOY YOUR ARENA!"
Image
Part three of my quest to lose my sanity

"Bin would get my Unusual hatz since he's the coolest, bravest, smartest and toughest admin." - Bruce Willis
User avatar
Binerexis
Old Timer
UKCS iSeries Attendee
 
Player: Extrodisian
STEAM_0:0:19678834
 
Posts: 5282
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:58 pm
Location: The North



Image

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby ApacheFlame on Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:14 pm

I'll come straight out and say I haven't watched all of the video, I stupidly clicked page two of this thread and the vid stopped.

Nobody so far has mentioned medicine. How many of the people in this thread taken a painkiller in their lives? Or more seriously, have loved ones who are diabetic or needed an operation?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Buggs bunny should be wearing maybeline lipstick, but would you feel happy giving an untested drug to your loved ones?

I work in medical research and whilst we can test these things in vitro the effects change massively when you translate to in vivo. For the record I am strictly on the in vitro side so no nail bombs please.
The Programmers Mantra: Declare Variables, not War.

Image
Image
User avatar
ApacheFlame
Exec. Admin (Retired)
Moderator
UKCS iSeries Attendee
 
Player: Apache
STEAM_0:1:27288431
 
Posts: 5300
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:12 am
Location: over at the Frankenstein place



Image

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby BenJy! on Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:19 pm

A guy from my town filmed his neighbour abusing his dog and posted it on Facebook, needless to say it spread quickly with people phoning the Police and the RSPCA. The guys windows where put through and he himself got a beating with a 50+ mob outside his house. The guy was arrested and is currently living in London away from his Wife and kids to avoid further disruption, the dog has been taken away and re-homed all ready. While I don't agree at all with the man being beaten or his windows being put through I do agree with spreading this kind of thing through social networking. It gets more people, sometimes the wrong people as well, to speak out and act against Animal Cruelty.

Links:

http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/VIDEO-Mo ... story.html

http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/man-cour ... story.html

http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/Man-char ... story.html
Image
User avatar
BenJy!
UKCS Sponsor
 
Player: GGGhost!
STEAM_0:1:10348274
 
Posts: 7730
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:03 pm
Location: In Northern Darkness



Image

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby Little_Devil on Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:15 pm

Vegetarians: Does a plant not bleed, does it not feel pain.

Answer is yes to both. :)
Little_Devil
Exec. Admin (Retired)
 
Player: Aurora
STEAM_0:1:6431437
 
Posts: 18895
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:47 pm

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby Binerexis on Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:38 pm

Vegetarians aren't vegetarians because they love animals. They're vegetarians because they hate plants and absorb their power by eating them.
"Everyone just shut up and enjoy your arena."
"...But we don't enjoy aren-"
"SHUT UP AND ENJOY YOUR ARENA!"
Image
Part three of my quest to lose my sanity

"Bin would get my Unusual hatz since he's the coolest, bravest, smartest and toughest admin." - Bruce Willis
User avatar
Binerexis
Old Timer
UKCS iSeries Attendee
 
Player: Extrodisian
STEAM_0:0:19678834
 
Posts: 5282
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:58 pm
Location: The North



Image

Re: Animal Cruelty Movie

Postby BenJy! on Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:48 pm

Binerexis wrote:Vegetarians aren't vegetarians because they love animals. They're vegetarians because they hate plants and absorb their power by eating them.


Seems to work well for this guy:

Image
Image
User avatar
BenJy!
UKCS Sponsor
 
Player: GGGhost!
STEAM_0:1:10348274
 
Posts: 7730
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:03 pm
Location: In Northern Darkness



Image

Previous

Return to Thinkers Topics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 2 guests