Atheism 2.0

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Atheism 2.0

Postby Security on Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:10 pm

I stumbled across this video and the man is actually telling something I have been feeling the same way about over the past years. :)


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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby Binerexis on Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:21 pm

Sadly, I've not been able to watch the whole thing as my connection keeps dropping. Is it safe to assume that his point is that atheists are 'allowed' to be atheist if they still adapt some forms of philosophy be they personal or otherwise?
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby Security on Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:13 pm

Yeah in the end it does come down to that I would say. :)
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby BenJy! on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:08 am

Atheist/Nihilism, seems best to me.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby ApacheFlame on Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:20 pm

Binerexis wrote:Sadly, I've not been able to watch the whole thing as my connection keeps dropping. Is it safe to assume that his point is that atheists are 'allowed' to be atheist if they still adapt some forms of philosophy be they personal or otherwise?


Nearly.

It was basically: religion does a lot of things well, lets enjoy and use those things to our advantage. just because you don't agree with the doctrine doesn't mean you cant enjoy the singing or the architecture. Their use of calendars to make people think about certain things at certain times of the year is not a bad concept. Like Buddhist rituals in late September where they have to look at the moon to get a feeling of humbleness (sounds stupid, but this is very paraphrased) is not necessarily a bad thing.

Worth a watch when you get a chance/less derpy connection.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby Binerexis on Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:10 pm

YT is still not working terribly well for me so please keep that in mind when reading this.


Maybe it's just the different circles people are in but I've never known nor met atheists who are against absolutely everything to do with religion including the architecture or works of prose. It seems like the guy in the video is saying "Hey, you can be atheist and still like things and be a reasonable person" but it works on the assumption that atheists, until now, have been unable or unwilling to appreciate various pieces of art because a Christian painted it.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby MakeNine on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:06 pm

Atheism is a rejection of religion and the thought of following our own mindless rituals and festivals is absurd. Especially stuff like Jewish baths (one of the reasons for them is to 'purify' dirty women who have menstruated). And the idea that you can't be moral without religion flies in the face of the fact that most parts of Western Europe especially Scandinavia are hardly lawless areas full of violent amoral barbarians.

In fact, the most dysfunctional societies are often the most religious, like Somalia or Afghanistan. And even in the USA there is a correlation in between reliogiosity and the prevalence of certain societal ills.

The whole point of free thought and rationality is that people can think for themselves, they don't need to go to some assembly every week to listen to a guy telling us 'how to live' as the speaker in the video says.


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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby Picky Bugger on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:31 pm

Binerexis wrote:YT is still not working terribly well for me so please keep that in mind when reading this.


Maybe it's just the different circles people are in but I've never known nor met atheists who are against absolutely everything to do with religion including the architecture or works of prose. It seems like the guy in the video is saying "Hey, you can be atheist and still like things and be a reasonable person" but it works on the assumption that atheists, until now, have been unable or unwilling to appreciate various pieces of art because a Christian painted it.


Either his assumption is derived totally from visiting Reddit or you don't go on Reddit, in fact it's probably both.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby Binerexis on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:35 pm

I go on reddit, I just don't bother with r/atheism as there are easier ways of looking at idiots. I prefer 'da club' for that, myself.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby heuji on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:04 am

the core of all religions are good and meant well. its the fanatics of any form of belief that push the limits and read hidden meaning, much like anything. you 'can' have too much of a good thing.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby Picky Bugger on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:52 pm

heuji wrote:the core of all religions are good and meant well. its the fanatics of any form of belief that push the limits and read hidden meaning, much like anything. you 'can' have too much of a good thing.


Not really, it may be "good" for a specific type of people but to say the core of all religions are intrinsically good is quite naive especially when applied to a modern setting (the old testament is a good example of this).
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby Aceo on Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:21 pm

The "hidden meaning" is also questionable, if I remember right, Leviticus was quite explicit in it's writing for example.

I've listened to the whole of the video and I have to say he has a very good point. He implies that currently the idea of Atheism is seen to be individual, whereas when you think of religions with there sermons etc. there is an explicit sense of community. So, he wants some way for Atheism to be seen as a positive in the community as opposed to being an idea where you do not go to such events, or at least this is how I read into it.


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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby Picky Bugger on Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:38 pm

Aceo wrote:The "hidden meaning" is also questionable, if I remember right, Leviticus was quite explicit in it's writing for example.

I've listened to the whole of the video and I have to say he has a very good point. He implies that currently the idea of Atheism is seen to be individual, whereas when you think of religions with there sermons etc. there is an explicit sense of community. So, he wants some way for Atheism to be seen as a positive in the community as opposed to being an idea where you do not go to such events, or at least this is how I read into it.


I have no interest in being part of an atheist community, now a scientific or rational community/society is a different matter. I see no reason to be part of a community simply because they don't believe in the same things as me.

I also disagree with the point he makes about books written by lone individuals not changing anything. Clearly it does not happen in the same way as Religion but a simple look at modern society proves him wrong.
Last edited by Picky Bugger on Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby Binerexis on Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:44 pm

It seems more like him wanting to make atheism a religion which just seems oxymoronic.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby Picky Bugger on Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:46 pm

No he's definitely talking about community, he doesn't mention ideology or doctrine in the lecture. Still don't agree with him however.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby heuji on Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:15 am

Picky Bugger wrote:
heuji wrote:the core of all religions are good and meant well. its the fanatics of any form of belief that push the limits and read hidden meaning, much like anything. you 'can' have too much of a good thing.


Not really, it may be "good" for a specific type of people but to say the core of all religions are intrinsically good is quite naive especially when applied to a modern setting (the old testament is a good example of this).


the core values are of course good :roll: i said 'core' not complete. its all about interpretation. i don't know any religious god that is worshipped who as such 'sins'. they are the definining value in all religions and not the 'players' in these books.

Aceo wrote:The "hidden meaning" is also questionable, if I remember right, Leviticus was quite explicit in it's writing for example.

I've listened to the whole of the video and I have to say he has a very good point. He implies that currently the idea of Atheism is seen to be individual, whereas when you think of religions with there sermons etc. there is an explicit sense of community. So, he wants some way for Atheism to be seen as a positive in the community as opposed to being an idea where you do not go to such events, or at least this is how I read into it.


once again, not 'the god' the religion of christianity or catholisism follows. bringing me back to fanatics, interpretation and these parts being hidden, although in plain sight. you're selecting a chapter written, for example, like a crime novel and relating to the serial killer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Leviticus
The English name is from the Latin Leviticus, taken in turn from Greek and a reference to the Levites, the tribe from whom the priests were drawn; Leviticus is not, however, a manual for priests, as it concerns itself at least equally with the role and duties of the laity.

i maybe made my point a little brief and not in depth enough, but, this is at heart a gaming forum and walls of text are very rarely read. nor do i have time to do a full breakdown :wink: it would take an absolute decade. people dedicate lifetimes to to do a true and synopsis of all religions. why i used the word core without going in to too much detail.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby heuji on Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:13 am

ohh, and as for the film originally posted. listen to it again. the guy constantly contradicts himself. he uses 'we need' a lot and then says things like 'dont need leaders'. so, who is meant to tell us what we 'need'? he's preaching. aetheism 2.0, i'd like to think he was kidding, but he's not. my own personal opinion it doesn't need discussed openly. the person themselves should come to their own conclusions, and then, keep it to themselves. i have no beliefs what so ever, i don't believe in deities, nor do i not believe. i just don't think about it nor find it relevent. i don't think i have, what is considered, low moral values. so, where did i get that from?
what i do know is religion causes more conflict than good. i don't believe, for one minute, that if the people going to religious places to worship would turn out 'immoral' if they'd never been. i do believe if they hadn't, there would be less conflict in the world.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby Picky Bugger on Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:12 am

heuji wrote:
Picky Bugger wrote:
heuji wrote:the core of all religions are good and meant well. its the fanatics of any form of belief that push the limits and read hidden meaning, much like anything. you 'can' have too much of a good thing.


Not really, it may be "good" for a specific type of people but to say the core of all religions are intrinsically good is quite naive especially when applied to a modern setting (the old testament is a good example of this).


the core values are of course good :roll: i said 'core' not complete. its all about interpretation. i don't know any religious god that is worshipped who as such 'sins'. they are the definining value in all religions and not the 'players' in these books.


Again this is totally debatable and the eye roll is not really appreciated.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby coldandtired on Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:32 am

The core values of any organized religion are, very simply, to create a them-versus-us tribal mentality.

You can't start up an 'exclusive' group by making rules that are so obvious that most people follow them automatically, and wouldn't consider doing otherwise.

So, by creating arbitrary, nonsensical rules (no meat on Friday, no working on Saturday, etc.) it becomes very easy to see who is in the group and who isn't.

Then, by giving the rules more and more importance it becomes heresy not to follow these stupid rules, and the more devoutly you follow them the 'better' a person you are.

Rules like 'do not kill' and 'do not commit incest' are so blindingly obviously necessary for any society that they have no religious meaning at all.
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Re: Atheism 2.0

Postby heuji on Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:16 pm

Picky Bugger wrote:Again this is totally debatable and the eye roll is not really appreciated.

it wasnt meant to be offensive. it is a 'smiley' after all and merely responding to allegedly being 'quite naive'. i appologise. using the smiley, i now see, was a mistake and i should have maybe typed my feelings or left it out completely.

coldandtired wrote:The core values of any organized religion are, very simply, to create a them-versus-us tribal mentality.

You can't start up an 'exclusive' group by making rules that are so obvious that most people follow them automatically, and wouldn't consider doing otherwise.

So, by creating arbitrary, nonsensical rules (no meat on Friday, no working on Saturday, etc.) it becomes very easy to see who is in the group and who isn't.

Then, by giving the rules more and more importance it becomes heresy not to follow these stupid rules, and the more devoutly you follow them the 'better' a person you are.

Rules like 'do not kill' and 'do not commit incest' are so blindingly obviously necessary for any society that they have no religious meaning at all.

yes, and this is where it crosses in to fanaticism. using the contradictory parts of religion to ones own personal gain. however, the 'exclusive group' part of this argument relates to many years back when society was a little more lawless and therefore applicable. this is where religion fails, as it is never exactly updated for a progressive society. that being said, these are still the 'core' values of most/all religions.
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