Salvation

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Re: Salvation

Postby Bobbobthebob on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:26 pm

Seraphina wrote:Whatever floats your boat but keep it to yourself, I say.
I don't mind if people feel the need to believe in fairy tales but is it necessary to annoy others with it and "ram it down their throats" as Dauntless puts it so nicely?

It's hardly ramming it down your throat. You're not beholden to him, you can just not read the post as soon as you decide you're not interested.

Binerexis wrote:I don't want to sound too militant with this and I'm sorry if I offend here but that view isn't very Christian. At all.

According to the bible, you can murder, cheat, steal and rape with it all being OK so long as you believe in that god. God himself in the bible condones slavery, war and rape and, seeing as he's infallible, he still condones it. Not a nice dude.

Christian belief runs quite a wide spectrum really. Most protestants believe in salvation through faith alone as you suggested but others like the Roman Catholic church for example can see you sent to hell based on your deeds (The bible, as ever, is full of quotes: [from JC himself] "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven").

Not really sure what's up for discussion here though. I suspect the appetite for 20-page argument threads about religion died some time ago. P.S. where's White Dove these days?
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Re: Salvation

Postby Wizav on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:38 pm

Jesus dies 29-33 AD

Bible scripture is started in around 70 AD and finished around 130 AD by 8 or more anonymous and unknown authors working on word of mouth , hear say keeping in mind Jesus and most of his contemporaries died before any bible authors were even born and the earlier authors would have died before the latter authors were born which is why Mathew is pretty much a copy paste of Mark that was written decades earlier. Very few people in the Levant could read or write and of the few that could at the time Jesus was alive and performing miracles, not a single one of them mention him but write pages on petty criminals, thieves and other trivial things when compared to the miracles of a god.

325 AD a council of priests meet up in Nicaea and create the bible from all the scripture and canon collected in the past 300 years. They themselves deem what is historically accurate and truth and identified cough*cherry picked*cough the 27 books of the bible, everything else was just tossed aside. They already had faith and a belief in Christianity so you can only imagine how much bias was involved in validating there own views. If any text was found making claims that Jesus was just human you can be fairly confident it was destroyed or burned on the spot for being a blasphemous or heretic document.

Was you aware of this Acehole or do you believe Jesus' friend's and disciples wrote the bible like most Christians do?


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Re: Salvation

Postby Acehole on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:22 pm

Its Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve :?
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Re: Salvation

Postby ApacheFlame on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:37 pm

Right, there are some very naughty words and shouldn't be seen by those with delicate eyes/ears:








Do you not agree with Brand's point of view? Surely the teachings of Jesus being love and tolerance is more important than who wants to sleep with who?
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Re: Salvation

Postby Binerexis on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:49 pm

Acehole wrote:Its Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve :?



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Re: Salvation

Postby Synaphix on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:57 pm

Damn, is it wrong I'm laughing!
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Re: Salvation

Postby Aceo on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:03 pm

Acehole wrote:Its Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve :?


And therefore they should be burned in hell and tortured for all eternity? Your 'loving and just' god is a dick.


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Re: Salvation

Postby coldandtired on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:28 pm

I'm calling this as the OP trolling now.
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Re: Salvation

Postby Dauntless on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:43 pm

Watch Dogma, theres some food for thought
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Re: Salvation

Postby Acehole on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:45 pm

There are some things I believe in the bible and things I don't totally agree with. Aceo calling God a Dick is a bit disrespectful I think.
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Re: Salvation

Postby Aceo on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:50 pm

You saying my friends don't deserve to be able to marry is disrespectful I think.


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Re: Salvation

Postby Dauntless on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:52 pm

Let us just chill out and have a cookie!

Keep it chilled and this debate may last a few more posts, if not this argument will get ended pdq.
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Re: Salvation

Postby Bobbobthebob on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:04 pm

Acehole wrote:There are some things I believe in the bible and things I don't totally agree with. Aceo calling God a Dick is a bit disrespectful I think.

Okay, I'll try this without being disrespectful. Correct me if I'm wrong here:

  • You are against gay marriage
  • The reason for this is because it's in the Bible and you believe certain things about the nature of the Bible (that it's the word of God or something similar).
  • You are happy to apply these rules (e.g. the strictures against gay marriage) to those who don't believe in the same
  • You don't really have a way to prove to someone outside of the faith that they should follow the bible beyond one of the following: inculcation into the religion at a young age, peer pressure, religious experience, emotional manipulation or similar. What I'm saying is that your belief in the Bible is an act of faith and not one driven by reason.

Why do you think your personal beliefs, especially those that can only be justified by appealing to the authority of the Bible, should be applied as law to everyone else? Would you appreciate Sharia law being applied to you?
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Re: Salvation

Postby Acehole on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:04 pm

I have nothing against Homosexuals, yes I think its wrong for gay Marriage and I really can not see the church giving in to gay marriage either. And all that do wrong in the eyes of our lord Jesus Christ will be punished for there wrong doing. You Don't have sex with another Man if you are a Man, a man and a woman where made the way they are so they can reproduce. And as for Gay men trying to Adopt children is a hole new matter that's seriously needs looking at in my eyes. :twisted:
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Re: Salvation

Postby Dauntless on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:17 pm

^^ I believe that would be the red rag to a bull..... china shop here they come!
Last edited by Dauntless on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Salvation

Postby cowboyfromhell on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:18 pm

So what is your opinion on those heterosexual couples which, for medical reasons, also can't conceive?

Damned to eternal hell as well I assume..?
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Re: Salvation

Postby EvolvedMonkey on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:47 pm

This thread reminds me of that American dad episode 'Lincoln Lover'
But I'm feeling good, And if you don't exist, you're still one illusion that I can't resist
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Re: Salvation

Postby Acehole on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:54 pm

cowboyfromhell wrote:So what is your opinion on those heterosexual couples which, for medical reasons, also can't conceive?

Damned to eternal hell as well I assume..?


They Should Adopt as they have been most unfortunate, then they can play a good role model giving the adopted child a mum and a dad. :D
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Re: Salvation

Postby Gh0st.IRE on Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:23 pm

I really think that no-one knows what happens when you die (shock) and the only way we will eventually find out is by dying after x amount of time. As much as I would like to float on up to a heaven and live for eternity I don't know if I will or if I won't and the way I see it is there's no point in arguing/worrying/contemplating something you have absolutely no control over.

We live, we die. That much is certain. What happens after that, who knows?
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Re: Salvation

Postby ApacheFlame on Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:50 pm

So let me get this straight (hah! Chance of that would be a fine thing :P ):

It is not OK for homosexual couples to adopt.

It is OK for heterosexual couples to adopt.

Surely adopting more children, regardless of sexual orientation, is a good thing? One more happy family made where the child can be loved as they should be rather than left bouncing in the welfare states fostering schemes where, despite the best efforts of the authorities and foster carers children don't always receive the love and support they need and don't grow up in an atmosphere that gives them the best chances of achieving their dreams. (I must say I am glad we have such schemes, but they never replace a family IMO).

I am sure that any couple would respect the choices their child makes regarding religion so please dont say homosexual couples 'will teach them to sin/set a bad example' as it wont wash I am afraid. If a child is old enough to make a choice about religion they are old enough to take examples from their respective beliefs and show tolerance to the rest of mankind.

There are ways in which I live by a Christian moral compass. However I just dont understand how two people loving and caring for each other can be such an issue. Just to add fuel to the

This is probably the principle reason I will remain toasty in the afterlife, but hey ho.
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