Online Sexism

This forum is for posting meaningful and serious ideas and questions. Can be about interests, observations or serious matters of the world. If it doesn't fit that category, don't post here! Serious posts only.

Online Sexism

Postby Safire on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:41 pm

Hello! :)

My name is Safire and I’m a regular on UKCS server 1 and I occasionally play on the other servers too. I’ve played on UKCS for over 3 years now and have met lots of really lovely people. The only negative thing that has kept cropping up, week in and week out (sometimes every day) for the past few years has been the attitude of some men towards women in game. The sad thing is that many of the men saying these destructive things are regulars on UKCS.
I think it’s important to talk about this issue and perhaps some of the men who haven’t really thought about the negativity of their attitude towards women will stop and consider acting differently next time they are playing an online game with them.


Image


I’m going to go through some of these negative attitudes and show why they can be damaging.


“It’s because you’re a girl!”

I think this picture aptly illustrates my point of the attitude towards women gamers and women in general...


Image


If you’re a woman and you aren’t that good at a game, or you have a bad day and don’t do very well, it’s because you’re a woman.
If you’re a man and you aren’t good at a game or you’re having a bad day then it’s because you aren’t good at a game or you’re having a bad day... Your sex is not brought into the equation.
If you’re a woman and you’re good at a game it’s often insinuated that you had “help” or gave out sexual favours in order to get to the level you are at. Or that you are in some way “masculine”.
Basically that’s saying, unless you are a man, man-like or you have had help somewhere along the line from a man, then it is not possible for you to be good at a game.

“Hahahaha, u pussy!”

There are people who use language such as:
“Don’t be such a pussy!”
“You’re such a girl.”


And if a man is acting in a way other men perceive to be “effeminate”, you hear language such as:

“Faggot...”
“You’re so gay”


This gives out the impression that femininity is a negative thing. That it is something weak and cowardly and even repulsive and something to be avoided. Femininity in all its forms is not and never has been weak, cowardly, repulsive or something to be ashamed of.

“Are you hot???”

There is an attitude that women who play games can either be hot/”girly” and bad at the game or ugly/”masculine” and good at the game.
This is just dumb.
What a woman looks like and what her personality is like has no bearing on how she plays a game.
I have found that other women can perpetuate this myth. There are some women who try to disassociate from anything they consider feminine because they think it’ll bring down their reputation, and this leads them to call other women gamers who don’t feel the need to hide or be ashamed of their femininity “sluts” or “attention whores”. Misogyny is ingrained in our world and many women feel they have to deny their femininity in order to be taken as seriously as men.
Also in regards to women’s personalities, if a woman isn’t particularly sweet tempered she is automatically called a bitch or it’s assumed she’s on her period. Of course there could be no possible reason for a woman to be angry or upset other than because she’s hormonal...
Women can be lovely and we can also be horrible, but that’s because we’re human just like men and our individual temperaments are no reflection on our sex.
Some women play games to meet men, and to flirt and socialise rather than to play the game. They are no better or worse than other women who play games. They are not “sluts” and “whores” and women who are there mainly to play the game are not better women than them.


“If I were a girl I’d try and get as much free stuff as I could xD”


There is a common misconception amongst gamers that all women gamers are after free stuff.
The other day on server (unfortunately I didn’t keep a record) a guy asked if anyone would like a free fall crate. Several people, including myself said, “Sure”.
Someone else asked me if I was after the new medic mask, I said “Yes!” and he offered to trade with me.
A man on server responded with:
“I wonder how many naked pictures you have given out to get free stuff.”
And another guy responded with:
“^”
I had no intention of taking the medic mask for free, just the crate as it was offered as such. I paid for the medic mask and afterwards, despite the trade details being shown IN GAME, the same men said:
“I’d like to see the naked picture you just gave for that thing”
“^”
For a while I felt utterly sick and like I never wanted to play again, I felt like every guy I’d ever met on UKCS might secretly be thinking that I do that... that I take naked pictures and give them out to get free stuff, and that there was the likelihood that a bunch of male gamers were more likely to believe other male gamers than me - a woman.
There are some women (and men I’m sure) who do exchange items for naked photos (which is their choice) but they’re in the minority and I’m not one of them and I don’t want it to be assumed that I do it just because I’m female.
I went away and thought a lot about what happened and how uncomfortable it had made me feel and I came to this conclusion:
If a man offers a woman free items and she takes them, (even in return for a sexual favour) that is ultimately her choice but he has as much responsibility in that situation as she does. She however will be the one who gets abuse for it.
After that incident the other day, I became very aware of the amount of times men were given free items in game and how this was never commented on. If a man takes something for free his actions are not held against his whole sex. His sex doesn’t even come into the equation.

There is a culture that tries to make women feel ashamed if they don’t accept unwanted gifts and attention from men. It’s flattering, so they shouldn’t mind, right?



Image



If I say "no, I don’t want something for free" it’s not because I am playing hard to get, it’s not because I am teasing you, it’s because I don’t want it. Please accept that, because every time I say no, I am told no is not a suitable answer and I feel very uncomfortable.
If you are my boyfriend or a close friend you can buy me stuff as gifts, go ahead! I’ll buy stuff for you too. But if you’re a random guy online, I don’t need or want you to give me stuff. I’m ok, really! I can trade; I have metal and items to pay for stuff.


If you are a man and you are giving a woman free items in the hope that she will like you more and pay you more attention and she accepts them but doesn’t give you that attention and you become resentful, that is YOUR responsibility, not hers. It doesn’t make her a bitch who doesn’t like “nice guys”. Save your items for a woman who really is interested in you and will want to give back to you too and let the one who isn’t interested get on with her life.


Image




“It’s past your bedtime little boy”


Why is it that a lot of men still seem surprised to find a woman in game?
Video games haven’t actually been around that long. I’m 27 and my sister and I loved playing with our SNES when we were kids and the girls I knew in school also had games consoles, just like the boys. So it makes logical sense that girls enjoy games as much as boys and will continue to go on playing them into adulthood if they want to.
The immediate assumption made by some is that you must be a little boy or that you are a guy pretending to be a woman. I usually get comments in regards to my gender/age about once a week, at the least.

“Make me a sammich xD”

One of the most common “jokes” I hear/see online is: Get back to the kitchen and make me a sandwich. A lot of men and women seem to have no problem with it. When I told my friend online I found it uncomfortable, she told me that she just laughs and goes along with it and asks the hilaaaarious person saying it what they would like in their sandwich. I can understand why she did that, sometimes you just want people to shut up and go away and standing up and saying “You know I’d really rather you didn’t say that” causes so much drama, and over time you just end up going along with it, but that’s what sexism is intended to do, it’s there to control women and make them feel bad about themselves.

I know that a lot of people who say this joke mean no harm by it, but there are a lot of men with a very archaic attitude towards women and by repeating this joke you perpetuate the belief that this attitude is ok.
There have been some amazing, clever, skilled people who have never had the chance to show what they have simply because they were born female. Women have been oppressed for thousands of years. Women were not considered equal to men, they were barely considered people. They had very few rights and they were owned by their husbands, just a slave - to put it bluntly.
Life isn’t like that anymore, (thank goodness!) but there are a lot of people who would still like to oppress women and I feel this joke, when dissected says “You have no place here, you have no rights, and you belong in the home where you provide for me because you are not as important as me.”

When a guy says “Bitch, get back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich.” I have seen people laugh and go on to expand the “joke”.
If a woman tries to defend herself, she is often met with:
“It’s just a joke! You take things too seriously. Calm down.”
And again she gets the message loud and clear:
“You have no rights, you have no place here, you are not as important as us.”
The reason this “joke” is so potent, is because women are generally made to feel like they don’t belong online because the internet is a "man’s place", something I hope I have illustrated in this post so far.

“Haha, you got RAPED!”

The word rape has been adopted in the gaming community to mean: I completely overpowered you with my skill and you could do nothing about it.
I get why it’s used, in fact I used to say it myself before I learned more about this subject, but I think perhaps we need to stop and think that it’s a very powerful word.
The likelihood that a straight adult man will be raped in his life is extremely tiny, the same cannot be said for women and if you are playing with women there is even a chance they may have been raped or subjected to a sexual assault.
I would personally like the word rape to be removed from the gaming world. There are many other words that could replace it.
I was on server a while back and we were talking about a famous movie star, and one guy said “I would rape her so hard till she bled.”
I told him that was a really horrible thing to say. He could just have said “She’s so hot; I’d really like to f*ck her.”
But that’s not as funny or something, right? Right...?

“You’re a dirty girl ;)


Just because a woman makes a joke of a sexual nature that does not give you the right to sex pest her and it also doesn’t give you licence to call her a slut.
So many times I see men making sex based jokes and people just laugh, if a woman does the same thing it’s insinuated that she is dirty or slutty and it seems to bring out the creeps who think she is “fair game” to be harassed because she’s obviously “up for it”. No, just no, to both.



We need to make online games places where women don’t feel harassed, belittled, threatened and insulted. The true meaning of sexual equality is allowing men and women in their differences to be given the same rights, opportunities and respect.
Thanks for listening,
Saf :)

Image
Image
User avatar
Safire
UKCS Life Sponsor
 
Player: Safire Join me for spooky UKCS!
STEAM_0:0:25015911
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:41 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Ger-h on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:55 pm

if you see this happening on any of the server's Saf just give the admin a head's up always happy to help :).


(Sorry for swearing)

whole shit that must take some time to write
User avatar
Ger-h
Executive Admin
Maptesting Head
UKCS iSeries Attendee
Official Executive Teaboy™
 
Player: Ger
STEAM_0:1:35307921
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:09 am
Location: Ireland



Image

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Aceo on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:21 pm

*General support for everything said in OP*


Aceo
UKCS Sponsor
UKCS iSeries Attendee
 
Player: Aceo
STEAM_0:1:8775008
 
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:16 pm
Location: England, Hull



Image

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Templar+ on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:23 pm

Chances of it completely stopping are pretty much nil there will always be some tool out there and the admins can't always police the servers.

Best thing to do is ignore it :)
Image
Image
User avatar
Templar+
Old Timer
Moderator
 
Player: Templar+
STEAM_0:0:10400303
 
Posts: 6114
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:17 pm
Location: Lancashire, England

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Synaphix on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:29 pm

I have played both CSS with Elmo and CS:GO with Seraphina and both have been given abuse hurled at them as I have seen when playing. They are both Admins so handled the situation correctly, if it was in a harsh case then that resulted in a ban usually or a kick. Sometimes it is banter which they can take just as a guy can take but when it got too much then I have seen them use the correct judgement and not just go and ban because a guy said something bad to them for being female.

I have as an Admin before handled it as well when female players have left due to some of the guys causing issues because they are female so I know how bad it can be at times. As Ger has said contact an Admin or the Exec. Admin if no admins available via @ with a screenshot or demo or a time for them to check the logs if it was a serious issue and they will be glad to help.

I'm not singling those female Admins out as I know Sekhmet is a TF2 Admin and has probably had such behavior towards her on the servers and I know she would handle it with a level head as I am sure the male Admins would and not just instantly ban because their co-admin was targeted.
No. I am not a nice man. It's important that you understand that. It's going to save you a great deal of time and effort. There is not a warmer, kinder me waiting to be coaxed out into the light. I am acerbic. I can be cruel. It's who I am. Right to the bottom. I'm neither proud of this, nor ashamed of it. It simply is. And in my work, my nature has been an advantage far more often than it has been a hindrance. I'm not gonna change.

- Sherlock, Elementary
User avatar
Synaphix
UKCS Admin
 
Player: Synaphix
STEAM_0:1:36281577
 
Posts: 3033
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Dauntless on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:36 pm

Report it. It doesnt matter how big or small the incident, let us know (by us i mean dependant on which admin in which game).

Alot of banter can be ignored but there are alot of things people do not understand that are out of place. Unless it gets reported or picked up on by an admin, no one can learn from these instances.

Also I would like to add, Read Syn's post above :P
Image
User avatar
Dauntless
Senior Admin
 
Player: Dauntless
STEAM_0:1:19137211
 
Posts: 1000
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:12 pm
Location: Leicestershire UK



Image

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Safire on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:46 pm

I agree that if anyone is being subjected to sexism online they should report it and get help, which I do. But I think that sexism is often considered one of the lesser evils. You see people who speed hack getting instant bans and yet someone who is being thoroughly unpleasant to a member of the UKCS community gets to stay and they often keep repeating their negative behaviour.
Image
User avatar
Safire
UKCS Life Sponsor
 
Player: Safire Join me for spooky UKCS!
STEAM_0:0:25015911
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:41 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: Online Sexism

Postby EWJ on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:01 pm

:cheers: love this post.

Many people think its cool to be sexist online.. Its not cool and if you did it in a normal work environment you'd be up before a manager and in a world of pain before your feet even hit the ground..

People = People No matter what sex,colour,creed.
God is a defect of the human genome.
Image
Earthwormjim hes such a groovy guy,
Earthwormjim he rockets thru the sky,
User avatar
EWJ
Old Timer
Moderator
UKCS iSeries Attendee
 
Player: Mr EWJ ®
STEAM_0:1:3498984
 
Posts: 8020
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:10 pm
Location: Ireland, The People's Republic of.



Image

Re: Online Sexism

Postby EWJ on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:14 pm

God is a defect of the human genome.
Image
Earthwormjim hes such a groovy guy,
Earthwormjim he rockets thru the sky,
User avatar
EWJ
Old Timer
Moderator
UKCS iSeries Attendee
 
Player: Mr EWJ ®
STEAM_0:1:3498984
 
Posts: 8020
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:10 pm
Location: Ireland, The People's Republic of.



Image

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Synaphix on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:22 pm

Safire wrote:I agree that if anyone is being subjected to sexism online they should report it and get help, which I do. But I think that sexism is often considered one of the lesser evils. You see people who speed hack getting instant bans and yet someone who is being thoroughly unpleasant to a member of the UKCS community gets to stay and they often keep repeating their negative behaviour.


Hacking is handled asap to ensure the server does not clear and cause an unpleasant place to play and yes I agree it is a serious issue but there is also a difference to banter and a serious choice of words that are offensive and although we would gladly come and handle the situation I would personally prioritize getting the server free of said hacker. The sexism can be handled quickly too if it is extremely offensive or we issue a warning which they agree too if needed rather than skipping the warning and if they continue then we would act further.
No. I am not a nice man. It's important that you understand that. It's going to save you a great deal of time and effort. There is not a warmer, kinder me waiting to be coaxed out into the light. I am acerbic. I can be cruel. It's who I am. Right to the bottom. I'm neither proud of this, nor ashamed of it. It simply is. And in my work, my nature has been an advantage far more often than it has been a hindrance. I'm not gonna change.

- Sherlock, Elementary
User avatar
Synaphix
UKCS Admin
 
Player: Synaphix
STEAM_0:1:36281577
 
Posts: 3033
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Unspecified on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:28 pm

A thorough post saf, and i'll re-read it again tomorrow when im a bit more awake ;)

I'm not sure if you looking for a general or a specific discussion here, so i'll try and comment on both (as me, not necessarily as UKCS).

Generally speaking first. Sexism in all its forms is obviously disgusting. You've made the point better than i could above as to WHY. I did wonder for a while after reading an article a few years ago whether sexism in games is as bad as its made out to be (i never really answered the question, though your post certainly leads it one way now). I'm not denying girls get abuse online, they certainly do, but then so do men. I generally liken it to school playgrounds in my head. "The pack" abuse you for whatever makes you look weak or sets you apart. If you're short you get abuse for being short, if you're fat you get abuse for being fat, if you follow a different religion, if you have a different colour hair or are into different things etc etc etc. None of it is nice if you are on the receiving end of it, especially if its about something you cant change.

On the internet its harder to see who stands out. "The pack" only really has what you sound like or what you type to go off. So yes if you sound like a girl that's something that makes you stand out and so something that you can be abused for, same as if you have a particularly deep or high voice or sound really young etc. If they cant tell much about you or you sound like just an 'average gamer' (i.e a male in this context), then they just go for the old favourites like calling you gay or making jokes about your mum. Whilst there are alot more female gamers than there used to be, in FPS games such as TF2 they are still by far the majority, so it still falls into the "makes you stand out" category to alot of the players out there.

I'm definitely not defending these people, or saying sexism isn't a problem, but in addition to trying to stamp out sexism, i think we also need to stamp out the wider culture of bullying/victimisation/abuse that the usually anonymous internet makes so easy. Unfortunately you don't have to look hard to find a sad news article of a young kid whos taken their life over abuse they got online :(

To be honest i have no idea how to do that. Is it simply so many immature young boys out there who just don't understand some of things you talked out, or is it just the fact there are alot of scumbags out there who know how much they can hurt but because its anonymous they just don't care? Answers on a postcard please...

More specifically, if you are seeing a problem from a particular user or bunch of users, regulars or not, then do report it to one of the seniors. That sort of thing is taken very seriously and i know i have banned people for this sort of thing before as have most other admins. Its not as easy to deal with people for this sort of thing as hacking. Hacking is a very binary problem - either the person is or the person isn't hacking and you can take action appropriately. Whereas sexism or other forms of abuse are often very cumulative and harder for an admin to spot in a brief window - they may make an odd comment that in itself isn't probably ban worthy, but when combined with their attitude and messages over a period do add up to abuse. We do rely on regulars to report these sort of situations so they can be dealt with.

Thanks for sharing Saf, and sorry to hear that you are made to feel like this at times :(
ImageUKCS Head Moderator. Retired Senior TF2 Admin.
Feel free to send me a Image or message me through Image with any questions or problems.
Don't forget that UKCS has an image uploader that's fast and free for all members!


17:43 - Salva: i did find out im not pregnant

One of the UKCS iSeries Clanbox Co-Organisers:
Image
User avatar
Unspecified
Executive Admin
Head Moderator
UKCS iSeries Attendee
 
Player: unspecified
STEAM_0:0:2326270
 
Posts: 4919
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: UK



Image

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Shuriken on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:04 am

I do tend to see sexism with a generous heap of ire, at the same time I recognise our history and what births these outbursts isn't going to go away any time soon. Especially so when you consider what games do for our psyche.

I think given enough time the problem will correct itself but that's more of a major societal shift. Give it enough generations and it'll seem preposterous.

This is also why I prefer to be an equal opportunities offender. You're all a bunch of gits.

<3
This is my sandvich. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My sandvich is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my sandvich is useless. Without my sandvich, I am useless. I must eat my sandvich true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy, who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. Before lunch I swear this creed: my sandvich and myself are defenders of my country, we are the masters of our enemy, we are the saviors of my life. So be it, until there is no enemy, but sandvich. Om nom.

Image
Image
User avatar
Shuriken
Old Timer
 
Player: `_´ HaemoGobliN `_´
STEAM_0:1:5456922
 
Posts: 3685
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:43 am
Location: I'm on a boat



Image

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Binerexis on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:44 am

Going to post tomorrow with a more in-depth reply (I was actually planning on writing an article on the subject but if you want to post your first post to a gaming site for a few thousand people to see, send me a pm and let me know) but the gist of it is this: I don't understand sexism, there are pockets of sexism in the gaming world, the behaviour of the people in general needs to be addressed and it won't all just go away overnight.
"Everyone just shut up and enjoy your arena."
"...But we don't enjoy aren-"
"SHUT UP AND ENJOY YOUR ARENA!"
Image
Part three of my quest to lose my sanity

"Bin would get my Unusual hatz since he's the coolest, bravest, smartest and toughest admin." - Bruce Willis
User avatar
Binerexis
Old Timer
UKCS iSeries Attendee
 
Player: Extrodisian
STEAM_0:0:19678834
 
Posts: 5282
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:58 pm
Location: The North



Image

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Safire on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:33 am

Synaphix wrote:Hacking is handled asap to ensure the server does not clear and cause an unpleasant place to play and yes I agree it is a serious issue but there is also a difference to banter and a serious choice of words that are offensive and although we would gladly come and handle the situation I would personally prioritize getting the server free of said hacker. The sexism can be handled quickly too if it is extremely offensive or we issue a warning which they agree too if needed rather than skipping the warning and if they continue then we would act further.


Pretty much all of what you said there makes me sad ^

Sexism is never banter.

Would you say you can have racist or homophobic banter?

As a man you can not decide what a woman finds sexist just like as a white person I can not decide what a black person finds racist, so even if you think something is just a "joke" or the woman is being "overly sensitive" you should be listening to her and not the "funny guy".

Perhaps you are not thinking of sexism when you wrote what you did? If not, feel free to correct me :)
Image
User avatar
Safire
UKCS Life Sponsor
 
Player: Safire Join me for spooky UKCS!
STEAM_0:0:25015911
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:41 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Safire on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:34 am

Hi Spec :) I agree with you that all forms of bullying and discrimination are abhorrent, I’d however like to expand on the sexism part. I agree that both sexes get abuse for various things but only women suffer sexism. This will also answer Binerexis’s confusion over what sexism is.

I quote:

“ -You cannot be sexist toward men. Sexism is based on a system of oppression. You CAN be discriminatory, rude, inconsiderate, and/or prejudiced against men but you CANNOT be sexist toward them.
Just like:
-You cannot be racist towards white people. Racism is based on a system of oppression. You CAN be discriminatory, rude, inconsiderate, and/or prejudiced against white people but you CANNOT be racist toward them.”

You talked about how people get bullied for being too short, or fat, or for following a certain religion etc. It is sad that all those things are considered negative and that being a woman is included in that. A man can be picked on for being ginger, and so can a woman but women are often treated unfairly in many areas purely for being female. There are some areas where a man is treated unfairly solely due to his sex but it’s fairly rare in comparison to the daily occurrence for women.

I quote:
“Women can certainly be prejudiced or discriminatory against men (which is not acceptable either) but they cannot be sexist or “reverse sexist” simply because they lack the institutional power to systematize their prejudice against men.
Men exist with male privilege, which is unearned privilege and institutional power granted to them just for being men. Since maleness is only one aspect of a man’s identity and other factors such as race, class, sexual orientation, etc. also shape one’s identity, every man experiences his male privilege in a different way. Despite these differences, male privilege is something that all men benefit from. Male privilege is so normalized and embedded in society that it operates stealthily so that many men, and women, may not even be aware of it.”

It is interesting that when you spoke of insults directed at the “average (male) gamer” they were clearly products of sexism. Gay = bad because it’s not considered masculine and mum jokes etc are again something offensive related to women.

I know that women in FPS games are still a minority compared to their male counterparts but in the wider world women and men are pretty similar population wise and are still being oppressed and treated unequally in many countries. So I think this is a wider issue which continues online. It’s not about numbers, it’s about a certain distorted attitude towards women. I think more women would play FPS games if they felt more welcome in the communities.

UKCS is an amazing community, and I hope I made clear at the start that I am not directing this post to the majority of players. My aim is to educate and encourage positive discussion :) <3
Image
User avatar
Safire
UKCS Life Sponsor
 
Player: Safire Join me for spooky UKCS!
STEAM_0:0:25015911
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:41 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Synaphix on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:39 am

I disagree completely, I've played with the female admins who find some of it just banter whereas you obviously find it more serious - as said by others, the hacking can clear a server in seconds. I am not saying sexism does NOT need to be handled but stopping an aim botter is a priority to me over that as it takes a mere few minutes, sexism can take awhile to handle and then as an Admin we (when I was one) need to think of how to handle it. If we were unable to decide on our own judgement then we escalate it to a higher Admin.

I am not that well written and probably come across different to how I mean but it depends on the person (the female) on what they find banter and what they completely think is over the top so you cannot speak for the entire female population. I know two of the female Admins will agree to that too. If I generally see the whole "get back to the kitchen bitch" or something then yes I'll step in whether Admin or not as that is disrespectful and I admit also that it has gotten me into heated arguments with people where I myself have been told to just take a breath when defending a female and then insults flung at me which then turns into stupid stuff like "Oh you just want to get into her knickers" or something but there is definitely a difference to what some females find banter and what they do not whether a joke or not.
No. I am not a nice man. It's important that you understand that. It's going to save you a great deal of time and effort. There is not a warmer, kinder me waiting to be coaxed out into the light. I am acerbic. I can be cruel. It's who I am. Right to the bottom. I'm neither proud of this, nor ashamed of it. It simply is. And in my work, my nature has been an advantage far more often than it has been a hindrance. I'm not gonna change.

- Sherlock, Elementary
User avatar
Synaphix
UKCS Admin
 
Player: Synaphix
STEAM_0:1:36281577
 
Posts: 3033
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Safire on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:03 am

I've never come across a woman online who thinks sexism is just banter, so that's why I am thinking perhaps you have a different image in your mind of what sexism is? Could you please give me an example of said banter that was not found offensive by your female friends? It may be that it wasn't sexist or that they have been taught to think those things are "ok" and just a normal part of life online, so it's easier just to accept it and play along. I used to be the same.

The sexism doesn't clear a server because women are in the minority on UKCS , but if say there were 29 women and 1 man and all the women left because he was being sexist, would you prioritize sexism then? Is it just about having a full server?

I disagree that sorting out sexism can't be done swiftly. When I was a UKCS admin if someone was being sexist I warned and then kicked them, if they came back and continued to be rude (which was always pretty much instantaneously -_-) I'd ban them, it took minutes. I've seen other admins do the same.

It's funny how so many admins/ex admins have replied :P I'd kinda like to hear also from just regular players as this post wasn't meant as an attack on admin standards, I just wanted to raise awareness of what it's like to be a woman online sometimes in a predominantly male environment.
Image
User avatar
Safire
UKCS Life Sponsor
 
Player: Safire Join me for spooky UKCS!
STEAM_0:0:25015911
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:41 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Safire on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:07 am

I see you have edited your post! I have seen men being called "White Knights" etc when standing up against sexism, which is again a product of sexism. A man can't defend a woman without being accused of having some darker motive, which is just sad :(
Image
User avatar
Safire
UKCS Life Sponsor
 
Player: Safire Join me for spooky UKCS!
STEAM_0:0:25015911
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:41 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Synaphix on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:09 am

Safire wrote:I've never come across a woman online who thinks sexism is just banter, so that's why I am thinking perhaps you have a different image in your mind of what sexism is? Could you please give me an example of said banter that was not found offensive by your female friends? It may be that it wasn't sexist or that they have been taught to think those things are "ok" and just a normal part of life online, so it's easier just to accept it and play along. I used to be the same.

The sexism doesn't clear a server because women are in the minority on UKCS , but if say there were 29 women and 1 man and all the women left because he was being sexist, would you prioritize sexism then? Is it just about having a full server?

I disagree that sorting out sexism can't be done swiftly. When I was a UKCS admin if someone was being sexist I warned and then kicked them, if they came back and continued to be rude (which was always pretty much instantaneously -_-) I'd ban them, it took minutes. I've seen other admins do the same.

It's funny how so many admins/ex admins have replied :P I'd kinda like to hear also from just regular players as this post wasn't meant as an attack on admin standards, I just wanted to raise awareness of what it's like to be a woman online sometimes in a predominantly male environment.


I am speaking to a female Admin right now which is why I was saying some find it banter. I will not drop names and I'll see if she gives me an example. I say this because I found something that was sexism and told her as she missed it and she just took it as banter.

And yes it can be handled swiftly by a warning then ban but it is harder to catch a hacker than it is to read the logs by the Exec Admin and go back to handle the sexism if you cannot see it in console. This is why I prioritize the hacker over the sexism.
No. I am not a nice man. It's important that you understand that. It's going to save you a great deal of time and effort. There is not a warmer, kinder me waiting to be coaxed out into the light. I am acerbic. I can be cruel. It's who I am. Right to the bottom. I'm neither proud of this, nor ashamed of it. It simply is. And in my work, my nature has been an advantage far more often than it has been a hindrance. I'm not gonna change.

- Sherlock, Elementary
User avatar
Synaphix
UKCS Admin
 
Player: Synaphix
STEAM_0:1:36281577
 
Posts: 3033
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Online Sexism

Postby Synaphix on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:10 am

Safire wrote:I see you have edited your post! I have seen men being called "White Knights" etc when standing up against sexism, which is again a product of sexism. A man can't defend a woman without being accused of having some darker motive, which is just sad :(


Yeah sorry, as I said I am not that well spoken when writing on here so I edited it. It has happened with female Admins and normal female gamers and even by well known regular males on the server doing it who I've even given timeouts for doing so and asked them to apologise. :(
No. I am not a nice man. It's important that you understand that. It's going to save you a great deal of time and effort. There is not a warmer, kinder me waiting to be coaxed out into the light. I am acerbic. I can be cruel. It's who I am. Right to the bottom. I'm neither proud of this, nor ashamed of it. It simply is. And in my work, my nature has been an advantage far more often than it has been a hindrance. I'm not gonna change.

- Sherlock, Elementary
User avatar
Synaphix
UKCS Admin
 
Player: Synaphix
STEAM_0:1:36281577
 
Posts: 3033
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Suffolk, England

Next

Return to Thinkers Topics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests