Online Sexism

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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Binerexis on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:53 pm

Safire wrote:Bin: feminism helps change the idea that rape is a natural state that men are somehow unable to control. You’re right that rape is unlikely to ever be eradicated, just like many of the nasty things in this world but things can change and get better and cases of rape can go down.
To rape is a choice and the actions of the victim are in no way a reason to rape them.
For example a woman who wears skimpy clothes is often thought to be “asking to be raped” and yet rape happened to Victorian women who had dresses down to their ankles and it happens to many Muslim women who are also dressed head to toe also. It is never the victims fault. And the same goes for male victims of rape, they didn’t do anything to encourage the attack and they are in no way emasculated because of it.


The notion that rape is something men are unable to control is something I've only ever heard from people who call themselves feminists. As a man, I've never once been around someone and thought "Damn, it's a good thing I've got all this self-control or I would totally rape them".

I think that using the words 'fault' and 'blame' in this kind of context never really seems right. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way saying that a girl dressed 'slutty' is deserving of being raped or is asking to be raped but I think there are reasonable expectations of behaviour independent of other people's decision. For example, if someone went out wearing nothing but a g-string and they were groped by someone, the groper is clearly in the wrong and has done an illegal action but, at the same time, going out wearing nothing but a g-string is an incredibly bad decision. It's difficult to explain.

Whilst a man is in no way emasculated if they're raped, they may still feel emasculated. Male rape is often treated as something funny as opposed to the 'more serious' female rape which can also severely negatively affect the victim's mental state.

I stand by more earlier point that I don't think feminism is or will do anything to change views on rape or reduce the number of rapes.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Aceo on Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:32 pm

Binerexis wrote:
The notion that rape is something men are unable to control is something I've only ever heard from people who call themselves feminists. As a man, I've never once been around someone and thought "Damn, it's a good thing I've got all this self-control or I would totally rape them".


That's not so much something Feminists say, so much as actually looking at what people mean when they say "Well, of course it happened. Look at what she was wearing!" as well as when people are against anti-rape education or more of a consent based sex-education rather than the shambles that is current sex-education which works to varying degrees.

As an example, this case is currently going through the courts in the US and it really does show how some people think of how consent works, and where the problems can lie.


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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Binerexis on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:41 pm

There's anti-rape education? Really? I think by calling attention to it like that, there's going to be a large group of women who think that men only want sex or that all men want to rape them. I would say that our current system of sex education works fine but, as with anything, you can't force students to think or listen.

I'm not familiar with that case or the evidence involved but how some people consider consent isn't how all people consider consent. Similarly, it's not a sex education issue and, if I understand correctly that the girl was unconscious at the time, it isn't a consent issue either; it's purely a rape issue. Again, I am saying that knowing nothing of the case or evidence except that the girl was unconscious.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Aceo on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:15 pm

You don't think Consent is an important part of Sex? If so...why teach children about sex but not how to pursue it?

Also, pro-consent sex education can work.



(Though, going in this direction would probably be better in a new thread)


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Re: Online Sexism

Postby meyenburg on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:48 pm

If some people harass girls for being girls, they are just complete assholes tbh. I always think its awesome when girls are playing, but thats just me.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Binerexis on Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:27 pm

Aceo wrote:You don't think Consent is an important part of Sex? If so...why teach children about sex but not how to pursue it?


Don't try to put words in my mouth, thanks.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Snowbat on Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:45 am

I get sad when I see people say "you got raped because you were wearing revealing clothes so you asked for it"

Seriously? They justify rape? With THIS? There is never EVER a reason to justify rape and this is an even more pathetic excuse.
Not only is it insulting towards women, but it makes us men look like a bunch of horny, primitive, sex-starved, uncontrollable beasts. A rapist is completely screwed in the head.
A woman shouldn't have to "watch her clothing"... men should be able to simply stay in control of their hormones.

You can put a super hot babe in short skirts and whatever other revealing clothes in front of me, I'd rather take a bullet to the head than rape her, no matter how horny I am at that moment.
The thought of rape wouldn't even cross my mind. It's simply... disgusting.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby re# Skilgannon on Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:54 am

rape isnt about sex, its about control
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Aceo on Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:00 am

Precisely, and once you start thinking of it like that; nearly every cop-out used starts making no sense at all.


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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Binerexis on Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:47 pm

Except no one ever uses those 'cop outs'. That article, more than anything else, looks like a venture of absurdity.

"men should be able to simply stay in control of their hormones."

Women can rape too, you know.


"rape isnt about sex, its about control"

Very yes.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Aceo on Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:29 pm

No-one uses them? Apart from in every single link...?
The 'silence is not a no' one is currently in use in the Steubenville case, by the defence lawyers.


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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Binerexis on Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:54 pm

That isn't the only argument they're presenting, they're also arguing that the girl left with the accused willingly. You make it sound like there's only ever one argument on the defense of a rape case and that argument is always one of the one-liners in that article (by the way, I'm looking forward to their next article of '20 spices that aren't sugar').
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Ger-h on Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:07 pm

how did this topic go from online sexism to this.? :scratch:
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Binerexis on Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:24 pm

Read the entire topic and you'll know.
"Everyone just shut up and enjoy your arena."
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Gh0st.IRE on Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:05 pm

Lets try to stay on-topic (or whatever topic the thread has evolved into dealing with) and not just posting useless questions and snotty responses, cheers!
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Aceo on Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:28 pm

An article on the abuse some women bloggers receive online would seem perfect for bringing us back on topic.

(Linked to it from here)


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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Binerexis on Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:15 pm

I don't understand why those female bloggers feed the trolls so much.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Ama_ on Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:18 pm

I'm sorry I haven't read the whole thread but here in France online sexism has been a great debate as a female blogger (and gamer) wrote a very long article about sexism in the geek community in general and some people reacted very badly to it, and this topic reminded me of it.

I am a female too and I remember having written a Tumblr entry about how i was living the fact that I'm a girl playing video games; fortunately I didn't have to undergo harassment or sexist behavior towards me, it was at most random players who were finding out I am a girl and then asking about my nationality and my age, but nothing more, and it has only happened when I was playing Left 4 Dead 2, not TF2.
Funny thing that happened to me though, once I went to a convention and a guy didn't believe I could beat a Guitar Hero song on Expert, but that probably wasn't because I'm a girl, rather because of the difficulty.
In general, when I meet men who play video games in real life, they are happy to find out I like video games too and wouldn't make any sexist remark about it.

But in my very case I don't feel confident enough to put a picture of myself as an avatar on Steam as I know it may be a risk I would be bothered by some people, and when I play the last thing I want is to be bothered. Same goes for using mics in game; as much as I would enjoy using it because it would allow me to communicate better with my team (I am specifically talking about TF2) I don't wanna risk any comment about how my voice sounds and the fact I'm female (besides my French accent :D). I obviously don't want to imply this will automatically happen if I used my mic or put a picture of myself as my avatar, but to put it simply, I don't wanna take that risk. What is most important is the fact I think there is a *risk* I could meet sexist reactions if did this two things, which isn't normal in my opinion. I should be able to join a server and feel comfortable enough to use my mic if I felt like it.
Paradoxically though, I have started to make videos with my voice on them, but I consider it a bit like gambling; if I ever encountered sexism regarding these videos, I would probably just stop commenting them and simply use annotations.

In a nutshell I am just not mentioning the fact I'm female or giving any hints suggesting it when I'm playing, and I personally don't really care if the players I am with are male, female, transgender or anything. To my eyes, they are just players, even though I am always nicely surprised when I find out a player is a female on the server I'm on. On the other hand, I don't like girls who are overemphasizing the fact they are girls playing video games, like it would count or be exceptional; as I said, to me everybody is a player and their gender doesn't influence my opinion about them.

What bugs me the most though is how some players act rudely sometimes, but I guess that's another topic.


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Re: Online Sexism

Postby I Blame my Mother on Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:05 pm

Sidenote for Ama:

Using mic on server has always made me self concious too, and I'm male.
I prefer to use the UKCS mumble for communications as its a much more friendly and safe environment (you can even hold a proper conversation there).
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Little_Devil on Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:18 pm

What bugs me the most though is how some players act rudely sometimes, but I guess that's another topic.


I would say it was all part of the same thing, being rude towards someone, particularly when you know there sex, is something that should not be tolerated.

As far as posting a picture on an Avatar, I am dead against that sort of thing, since certain parts of the internet are primarily designed to be genderless, where people can speak to one another without fear of a gender issue taking place. Strangely enough it is gamers attitudes which are the worst ones for this, particularly when they hear what they think is a female voice in game. Its probably all the raging testosterone and the fact they don't get out much :P

A forum is of course optional, and there are many forums where the primary writer is indeed female, and there is no issue, but again you may notice the distinct lack of gender based avatars, be they male or female.

As long as someone enjoys the game, does not cheat and is generally friendly towards others, I don't think there should be a gender issue, and certainly no reason to state what gender you are, unless you want to.

As far as the mic is concerned, talk to friends and ignore idiots :)
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