Online Sexism

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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Flare on Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:22 pm

The moment you decide not to use voice is the moment you admit defeat to the childish immature lot who cannot deal with girls in games, which is a shame as gamers should be more focused on enjoying the game as gamers and not the gender of the gamer.
I get that its easier to avoid conflict than to deal with it, but I would like to believe the UKCS community is mostly beyond the childish lot and has enough admins to deal with the few that refuse to accept.

I for one found it rather pleasant to have female voices having fun on the servers, and a pleasant change from the usual bravado rubbish :P

I wont put up a pic of myself as a avatar though, I do not want to scare off gamers :twisted:
Sometimes keeping an eye on your stats is not a good thing :P

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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Ama_ on Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:56 am

Flare wrote:The moment you decide not to use voice is the moment you admit defeat to the childish immature lot who cannot deal with girls in games, which is a shame as gamers should be more focused on enjoying the game as gamers and not the gender of the gamer.
I get that its easier to avoid conflict than to deal with it, but I would like to believe the UKCS community is mostly beyond the childish lot and has enough admins to deal with the few that refuse to accept.


Sadly imo it's not only a matter or deciding to use voice chat or not; as I was expressing in my previous post I was saying I wasn't doing it because I was afraid of the kind of reaction I would encounter. I am aware it is purely based on anticipation and may or may not happen, but given some players' behavior even without girls using mics, or some sprays they use, I simply don't want to take any risk.
Some girls would maybe simply do it no matter what but I know I wouldn't although if I meet really disrespectful players, may it be because they are sexists or implying their team can't play because they are mentally disabled, I usually tell them through the game chat to be more respectful.
Also I wasn't saying this would happen on UKCS servers, I sincerely hope it wouldn't as the fact the community is more mature and friendly to me than some others is what made me stay on the servers. But I'm not playing all the time there and, even if I would maybe use my mic on UKCS servers I definitely wouldn't on any other server I played on so far.

Blame: I never actually used any mumble, I guess it would be safer for me as well :D

Little Devil: I am used to participate in forums a lot and I agree, there is no issue although the fact users have gender based avatars or not depends on the forums. But I think it is a much more "neutral" environment than online gaming, where players in general are "in the game" and under adrenaline rush or whatever, could act differently from if they weren't playing.

As long as someone enjoys the game, does not cheat and is generally friendly towards others, I don't think there should be a gender issue, and certainly no reason to state what gender you are, unless you want to.

I fully agree with this too. I never really state my gender, especially not when playing, as I said I just consider I play with other players regardless of their gender, even if I keep in mind they are people too.


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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Ger-h on Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:44 am

ama I hate talking in game becuse I have a voice problem which makes super nervous.but I use mumble every night.should come in to the tf2 channel.back on topic sadly on ukcs tf2 there are some sexism comments thowing out there but 100% of the time the server will jump to that person aid.that's one of the reasons I think ukcs is a better community when people stand up for each other. when someone is being a sexist dick.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Gh0st.IRE on Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:57 pm

Off-topic: Mumble is great, but you do have to endure Ger and his horrific Cork accent, or you get my lush Dublin accent. Either way, Mumble is great.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Ama_ on Thu May 09, 2013 6:18 pm

Haha as long as you would be ready to bear with my ridiculous French accent it would be fine. :D I gotta figure out how Mumble works though and if it wouldn't cause ping spikes because of my bad internet.

Back on topic though, I was browsing through the Fat, Ugly or Slutty website today and found this: http://gbitk.net/ii/ I find it very interesting as it shows that at least in gaming communities online sexism, or rather gender and gaming, have been debated several times in 2012. I like to see it as a hint towards people being more aware of that.


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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Snowbat on Fri May 10, 2013 6:53 am

Ama_ wrote:Haha as long as you would be ready to bear with my ridiculous French accent it would be fine. :D I gotta figure out how Mumble works though and if it wouldn't cause ping spikes because of my bad internet.

Back on topic though, I was browsing through the Fat, Ugly or Slutty website today and found this: http://gbitk.net/ii/ I find it very interesting as it shows that at least in gaming communities online sexism, or rather gender and gaming, have been debated several times in 2012. I like to see it as a hint towards people being more aware of that.

Your French accent is probably not nearly as annoying as my Belgian accent. Belgian accents are some mix between German, French and Russian.
The French accent in English is actually pretty charming me thinks :-)

Online sexism has been debated more and more indeed these last few years. It's probably because gaming is becoming more and more of a substitute for TV in younger generations and gamergirls are seen more and more frequently.
There are a lot of ridiculously sexist clichés about gamergirls... but I'll say that one of them is true: girls often like to play some healing character. Some of the girls on mumble main medic in TF2 and back when I played WoW, the only two girls in our guild were both healers (and excellent at that I might say)
In L4D2 there was a girl in our usual team of friends too and she was often the first one to give up her healthpack to heal another.
Perhaps that's the caring, motherly instinct of the woman kicking in, while the man prefers to be that warrior that hacks/shoots his enemies to pulp ;)
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Flare on Fri May 10, 2013 8:02 am

Hehe Snowbat, you should see MrsSekmet play League of Legends, she goes Attack Damage Carry (ADC) and I often play the support role and she loves to suddenly drop the hammer on her enemies in lane, no heal from her just bullets from Graves or Miss Fortune.
Sometimes keeping an eye on your stats is not a good thing :P

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Re: Online Sexism

Postby re# Skilgannon on Fri May 10, 2013 8:05 am

TF2 Scout here :D
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby ListerofSMEG-2 on Fri May 10, 2013 8:35 am

So using your rationale, I must have feminine characteristics because I mainly play medic in TF2?

I think my missus might have some interesting comments about that!
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Snowbat on Fri May 10, 2013 8:49 am

ListerofSMEG-2 wrote:So using your rationale, I must have feminine characteristics because I mainly play medic in TF2?

I think my missus might have some interesting comments about that!

I didn't say all Medics are girls (I'm a Medic myself in TF2) nor did I say all girls were Medics...
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby re# Skilgannon on Fri May 10, 2013 8:59 am

ListerofSMEG-2 wrote:So using your rationale, I must have feminine characteristics because I mainly play medic in TF2?

I think my missus might have some interesting comments about that!


he's right :P

and knowing your wife she would fall on the floor laughing :P
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Shuriken on Fri May 10, 2013 9:30 am

I play medic half the time and I am completely comfortable with my sexuality....
This is my sandvich. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My sandvich is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my sandvich is useless. Without my sandvich, I am useless. I must eat my sandvich true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy, who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. Before lunch I swear this creed: my sandvich and myself are defenders of my country, we are the masters of our enemy, we are the saviors of my life. So be it, until there is no enemy, but sandvich. Om nom.

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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Berath on Sun May 12, 2013 6:19 pm

I 'play' demo and tank in mmos but yes, it's fair to say there is a tendency.

However I have my own crazy theories

1)medics and healers tend to be the less popular characters. Women are generally more socialised (note I said socialised) to be group orientated, helpful etc, so in effect they are rather more 'lumped' with the healing roles rather than instinctively head towards them
2) medics don't need to aim. Again, nothing to do with any instrinsic male/female skills, again more to do with early socialisation. A 10 year old boy is already starting to play shooters on his console. A 10 year old girl is less likely to, she is being steered towards more female toys and games. By the time they are 18, the boy has 8 years of shooters under his belt (he has played them with his mates, he's been bought an xbox, he's almost expected to play and enjoy them), the girl is 8 years behind. She starts playing TF2, she can't aim as well as equivalent boy but still wants to do her bit so she plays medic, learns to do it well, then because of (1) she gets stuck in that role




And after all in TF2, just healing is a minor part of the medic role which is at the heart of the game and one of the most stressful parts you can play.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby nim on Sun May 12, 2013 7:01 pm

This is somewhat off topic a bit.. My view of the whole sexism thing is; there will always be nasty people in the world who simply seek to annoy, frustrate and upset others, but also in a number of cases, people just say things without thinking about those who are on the receiving end of their comments and actions. The problem is that in the real world if someone stands in front of you and calls you a this or that you can slap'em, or more suitably, follow it up with appropriate action. However, the distant nature of the online society means that there is no personal connection between the nasty poops and the victims, allowing the attackers to "get away with it". The only way they will learn is if we as a community and society all stand up against any behavior that is deemed to cause upset, whether it be sexist or racist or this "banter" thing the kids keep talking about..

A few years back I "liked" the ukcs facebook group and someone had the cheek to link my facebook profile in a forum post making a comment about my appearance. I only spotted this a few days after it was posted and it was swiftly removed however it knocked me back. Fortunately i've always been fairly confident about my appearance so it didn't really bother me too much however I know many people who would have taken it far more seriously..

I would just ask that everyone, specially those at ukcs, think about what they're going to say before they say it..

I don't want to bring the bible into it.. but the treating your neighbors as you wish to be treated is generally a sensible way to live. imo.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Binerexis on Mon May 13, 2013 4:31 am

nim wrote:
I don't want to bring the bible into it.. but the treating your neighbors as you wish to be treated is generally a sensible way to live. imo.


Confucius said that 5,000 years before it was in the bible ;)
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Snowbat on Mon May 13, 2013 7:12 am

nim wrote:I don't want to bring the bible into it.. but the treating your neighbors as you wish to be treated is generally a sensible way to live. imo.

Agreed.
I follow that mentality too. But not because some book or historian said it. I follow it because to me, it's just f'ing basic common sense.
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Ama_ on Fri May 17, 2013 7:18 am

nim wrote:My view of the whole sexism thing is; there will always be nasty people in the world who simply seek to annoy, frustrate and upset others, but also in a number of cases, people just say things without thinking about those who are on the receiving end of their comments and actions. The problem is that in the real world if someone stands in front of you and calls you a this or that you can slap'em, or more suitably, follow it up with appropriate action. However, the distant nature of the online society means that there is no personal connection between the nasty poops and the victims, allowing the attackers to "get away with it". The only way they will learn is if we as a community and society all stand up against any behavior that is deemed to cause upset, whether it be sexist or racist or this "banter" thing the kids keep talking about..


This is a very good point here and I remember having talked about that not long ago with my brother as we were kinda comparing the League of Legends and TF2 communities in general.
It is true that from the moment people are not facing each other it becomes easier to say certain things and online sexism is part of it.

I'm not sure this goes with the topic but some time ago I happened to join a very crappy game on a Valve server and a guy who was playing as Heavy, with a Medic helping him, kept dominating my team and was spamming the game chat with comments about him raping us and how my team should do him some sexual favor.
While I can't say for sure this guy was a sexist I found this very offensive especially given he kept mentioning his male parts during the whole game and talked about raping. And while I would have liked nothing more than to tell him to shut his mouth and stop throwing such offensive comments in the chat (I usually do it) I just said nothing and eventually left the game, because I was thinking that given his way of speaking, he probably would be even more aggressive if he found out I am a woman. I literally didn't have the "nuts" to stand against him while I think I wasn't the only one who was feeling uncomfortable because of his behavior.
(if I was the Medic on his team though I would probably just have stopped healing him and voted to kick him)

Using such terms and then saying it's "bantering" or it's like a convention... hell it's like insulting someone and then saying "lol jk", it's as disrespectful, I never understood how people could insult someone and then say they were joking.


Snowbat wrote:I follow it because to me, it's just f'ing basic common sense.


Sadly it's not basic common sense for everyone :|


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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Ama_ on Sat May 18, 2013 9:24 pm

I know I'm double posting but I found this on Steam today :O

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I sincerely hope they are joking...


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Re: Online Sexism

Postby re# Skilgannon on Sat May 18, 2013 9:56 pm

probably not but then us ladies are stronger than to get upset by something silly like that :)
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Re: Online Sexism

Postby Flare on Sun May 19, 2013 12:15 am

Oh look a cave man club, guess they were too stupid to understand the club meant a group and not the thing they like to try hit people with.

Ama_ you should call the archaeologists they may be interested in the discovery of a Neanderthal man club.

Seriously though, I aint a perfect man, hell I have 90% of the bad parts... but even I rather have a partner in life than a slave* to my needs, a slave needs to be looked after, a partner will help you through lifes difficulties.

*dont get me wrong here, I aint saying making ladies slaves is ok as long as you look after them, my point is I prefer a partner where we can help each other through troubles...equally.
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