"In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

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"In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby Shuriken on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:00 am

Times need to change. As far as a general consensus on things go, I think that's about as broad as it comes. However, I think most people would agree with the sentiment. Everyone has an opinion, be it a single word response or an entire thesis but the beauty of the human mind is its adaptability, not the impressive rate at which it reinforces particular neural pathways. Sadly not everyone agrees on that, sure, beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the underlying facts of the machine are undeniable. So bearing in mind that nothing we think is set in stone, I would like to open a discussion or debate on the future of our collective species. I will try and hold off my opinion until required but to give some food for thought to start the topic I'd just like to ask you to speculate on what the best thing you can imagine would be in a perfect world. Feel free to add more than one point but try not to leave a list like 1) doughnuts, 2) playstation. Mostly because you're technically already living in a perfect world but also partly because I'm looking for depth on single issues at a time. Not to say don't tangent, but ideally put forth the idea with context first :)

So please, forgive my rough nature as I'm terrible at sensitivity management, but I would massively appreciate your input on what I feel is the single most important issue of all time :D
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Re: "In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby Binerexis on Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:44 am

The universe in The Next Generation seems pretty damn perfect to me. May elaborate further when more awake.
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Re: "In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby I Blame my Mother on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:58 am

Short version, more later when my brain thaws out.

The establishment of a post-scarcity society seems like a good place to start, after that just let people get on with whatever they want as long as it doesn't impact on the happiness of others.
In the meantime, we can approach that by use of good old democratic socialism to ensure that wealth and resources are distributed to those that most need it increasing overall equality and therefore productivity (no evidence given right now, later when I'm awake).
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Re: "In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby Wizav on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:46 am

Maybe controversial and batshit but i think this guy has the right idea.





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Re: "In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby PedalBin on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:14 pm

The one thing I would want is for the developments and research into science to be appreciated more and for people to understand the world they live in.


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Re: "In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby Little_Devil on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:16 am

Wizav wrote:Maybe controversial and batshit but i think this guy has the right idea.


Wether he is right or wrong, there have been many such visions for the future by many people, even down to those that have no access to technology that creates a vision of their idea of the future. :)

I would like to think that people would wake up and smell the total BS levied on us every day of our lives, and that some kind of revolution happens where the fiscal society we live in would come to an end. However people are such greedy a.holes this is just a pipe dream. :)

Whatever the future brings us, you can be sure of one fact, the media and Government will either suppress it, or try to control it, because anything that goes against fiscal policies will be controlled.

Technology has a very long way to go, and as yet we are only at the very start of a technology era, which is why Governments are trying to control such things now and get in early. People need to stop thinking electrical for technology, since I feal we will come to a point where technology which is biollogical in nature will be inevitable.

We as a people need to take back control of our lives, and out of the hands of banks, before any advancement can occur, since it is because of these muppets that there is no real advancement in the world.
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Re: "In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby Flare on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:08 am

My idea of a ideal world would probably shock the majority of the world...

I want strong authority , not this fuzzy line that depends on how much influence you have.
I want everyone to have access to the same resources, not depend on whose your daddy. Capitalism is all well and good for the first few generations but then gets loose when it comes to poor kids struggling to eat let alone study while rich kids barely have to think to get a education.
I hate how some privileged few can blow in a single party more than other can dream to earn in a lifetime of hard graft.
I hate how a few live in homes, and have multiple such homes, that would house many families yet others have no roof.

I hate how criminals have so many rights to protect them from injustice while victims of crime often get blamed for being in the situation.

I want controlled birth rates rather than this right to have children in a over populated world, its not fair on the children to struggle for limited resources because irresponsible parents wanted more children but cant afford them.
I would happily sacrifice my privacy for security, if the monitoring was done by AI with a human as a backup (who had to log every manual intervention).
I want to remove the rank means more privileges situation we have, rather let it mean simply more responsibilities... that way only those that want the responsibility would go for those roles, and not go for the rewards.
I want to remove the leader, and have a system similar to the book Independence Day... where one must earn a say in the running of society via a term in the military (or equally contribution to society (not cash)).

I want to remove cash, the idea of building up lots of money to be rich... money has way too much power and influence and people spend too much time chasing after it, and so obsessed with it to the detriment of the entire planet and humanity as a whole.
We literally cannot afford to save ourselves, no one wants to put up the bill.

I could go on but its long enough and naive enough, full of holes and impossibilities but it was about my ideal world.
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Re: "In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby Dargenor on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:00 pm

Some ideals can't be made, I always imagine a world where there is no hurt or bad emotion but then how would we learn? We wouldn't. It would be a world of people making the same mistakes and being happy about them.


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Re: "In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby Wizav on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:45 pm

Dargenor wrote:Some ideals can't be made, I always imagine a world where there is no hurt or bad emotion but then how would we learn? We wouldn't. It would be a world of people making the same mistakes and being happy about them.


People could still learn with logic and reason, only problem is society would become like the observers in fringe tv series. I don't think it's even possible to have good emotion without bad emotion, if you never experienced bad emotion, happy emotion would be trivial and meaningless, how would you even know it was a happy emotion?


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Re: "In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby Dargenor on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:08 pm

Wizav wrote:
Dargenor wrote:Some ideals can't be made, I always imagine a world where there is no hurt or bad emotion but then how would we learn? We wouldn't. It would be a world of people making the same mistakes and being happy about them.


People could still learn with logic and reason, only problem is society would become like the observers in fringe tv series. I don't think it's even possible to have good emotion without bad emotion, if you never experienced bad emotion, happy emotion would be trivial and meaningless, how would you even know it was a happy emotion?


Deep, Indeed. It's a weird one.


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Re: "In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby Shuriken on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:42 am

Some fine points brought up :D

Truth be told I do have an ulterior motive for posting this, albeit an innocent one. As stated in the life thread I'm sick of being told what I can and cannot do, I impose no limits on myself other than recognising my skill level and to say a skill cannot be improved without any justification is madness. Your replies have shown me that even though we vary as people, those who are willing to put any thought into anything are ultimately good contributors. A lot of points tie in with eachother and it's really encouraging to hear these kinds of things, especially given what I tend to fight for away from these forums.

Bin - I know exactly what you mean, I have secretly been hoping for such events that would bring about the ultimate choice of band together or die. It's not looking great at the moment though, but as long as we can keep ourselves alive long enough, technology will force mankind into a moral wake-up call. Do you want to stop worrying about capitalism, or do you want everyone to die? Not a hard choice for anyone who isn't ill. Would appreciate it if you did elaborate on any specific points further though :)

Blame - That's very close to my personal ethos, had destructive religions not taken over the planet we would be much much closer to this ideal, if not having already achieved it. We're living in an age where finite resources are being exploited with blatant disregard while alternatives are being hampered by an artificial construct designed to force us into subordination. Technologically we can be "saved", whether we die before we get there is the key issue in regards to that. In terms of a post-scarcity society I would suggest that everything that can be reproduced shall cost nothing, anything that is non-renewable, as it literally does now, should cost the earth. This is a way down the line in my eyes but not impossible.

Wiz - Some fine points brought up in that video, it's a sore point with me that so many of these projects or movements are often founded on deceit and mis-information. Unfortunately the Venus Project is now impossible as the planet has been pushed too far. Only an abstract breakthrough of unprecedented genius would save it now. A lot of aspects are still relevant and will need to be adopted, the fall of capitalism being one of them. Sadly the dictatorship it mentions is almost a necessity, if only to unite people against a common enemy and fight for what's actually right. While his architects dream takes over the end of the video and abandons the "work with what you've got" ethic it supports a major redesign of how we live is massively overdue.

Flare - I agree with almost all of your points. Ideally a truly moral society would enforce swift and just punishment, not the arbitrary "go sit in the corner and think about what you've done" that we have now but detatched, impartial recompense for all aggrieved parties. It may seem a little naive now, but it's not impossible. We've imposed an artificial limiter on ourselves in terms of our trading system, our wealth will amount to nothing if it's only used to control our behaviour and stifle progress.

Dargen - I understand the point you're trying to make, but as Wiz said, being detached from one emotion would make its opposite either more prevalent or illogical. I would say that it's not that we need to remove negative stimuli, we just need a perceptual shift. We're living in an age of exponential improvement and as more people understand our situation the "crunch time" get closer. When enough people see sense the world will have no option but to change, the alternative is to be forgotten, defeated by our own arrogance before we ever really soared and no logical mind wants that.


Truth be told I was expecting a few of these points to be made, as well as the tone and manner of their delivery. I believe if everyone "was given" this question we'd likely all come to a unanimous agreement that the way we do things is stupid and that the way forward is a nurturing society with selfless beliefs. I can see how religions have tackled this same plight but due to the nature of communication when they were founded, the disjointed nature of a multilingual planet and the individual input of toxic human beings they have failed dramatically, bringing about the opposite of what they no doubt set out to achieve. So on that note I will leave my opinion on all matters in the form of an excerpt from a religious angle on humanity: "Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill – an ye harm none, do what ye will". Had this prevailed through persecution and spread the same way its oppressors did, the world would be unimaginably different. Speculation is useless in this regard, but I can't see that allowing us to break our species or our planet no matter which way it evolves.

Don't discount your dreams people, you're never alone with them.
This is my sandvich. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My sandvich is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my sandvich is useless. Without my sandvich, I am useless. I must eat my sandvich true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy, who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. Before lunch I swear this creed: my sandvich and myself are defenders of my country, we are the masters of our enemy, we are the saviors of my life. So be it, until there is no enemy, but sandvich. Om nom.

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Re: "In An Ideal World" - Your Thoughts?

Postby Little_Devil on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:54 am

I think technologically, the future holds a miriad of devices that will enable people to achieve new levels of awareness.

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2 ... lectronic/

We are only at the start of a technical revolution, and is more akin to what I think will be an evolutionary step.

Think of getting rid of monitors where the recipients optic nerve is tapped, so that the brain receives a direct image, and interaction is no more than a thought process, where a device picks up the neural response to you waving a mental hand. The latter can already be achieved, so not so far fetched.
Extend this if you will to vehicles or indeed just about any moving object, and you have a society that does more and more less physicaly than now. This of course would lead to leaps and bounds into the design of bio-electronicdevices to exercise the body. Which I find quite exiting, think of the patients that are bed ridden in hospital, now getting better because of such devices.

The future holds a plethora of technological advancements, and will of course be tempered by people with different motives, be they helpful or political, or even find ways to utilise this technology for there own nefarious means.

The face of all engineering will change as science develops new materials or ways of strengthening or rather improving present day building materials, be they for structural buildings or materials used for furniture, cars, aircraft, or spaceships.

The production of energy is the next big step, along with efficient ways of storing different types of energy, electrical, heat, solar along with ways of converting one energy type into another with high efficiency.

As long as people dream of a better world, be that a green one where there is population control, where no one goes hungry and we all live in peece or we develop spaceships that allow us to escape this planet and create our own ideas of an ideal world, it will happen.

Just keep dreaming, and live to fulfill the loftier dreams, and not get bogged down in dreaming of your next holiday :)
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