Political - Cameron on Tax Avoidance

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Political - Cameron on Tax Avoidance

Postby Little_Devil on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:56 am

Its never a dull moment with the Conservative party is it. I have listened sometimes with merriment, sometimes pure loathing, but for the most with a sense of pure shock at the stupidity of this and the other major political parties in this country.

We have all heard the banging of the gong and drumbeating of the parties, on Tax avoidance, and how shocked the Prime Minister is at such figures as celebrities and large Companies using tax shelters and tax avoidance schemes.

Well David Cameron certainly cannot talk, given the fact that his millions were earned by his own father heading up a company that helped people avoid tax, and his own wealth is directly linked to tax avoidance.

David Cameron’s family made its fortune from Offshore Umbrella Companies in places like Geneva, Jersey and Panama. Ian Cameron, David Cameron’s father, set up the schemes after Margaret Thatcher relaxed the rules on money sent offshore in her very first month in power.

So here is a little light reading lol

http://www.contractoraccountants.eu/cam ... avoidance/

http://www.umbrellacompany.org/david-ca ... companies/
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Re: Political - Cameron on Tax Avoidance

Postby I Blame my Mother on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:51 am

I've given up trying to be dismayed at each new announcement by these thieving sods. Cameron and Osborne have shown themselves as pals to the wealthy and enemies of the social welfare state that was (shakily I admit) aimed at trying to close the gap between rich and poor.
Unfortunately this now leaves us in the awkward position of having literally nobody worth voting for. The Lib Dems are going to be put out in the cold for a long time over this, and Milliband just doesn't inspire anything more in me than a fit of giggles when I think how much he looks like Wallace.
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Re: Political - Cameron on Tax Avoidance

Postby Shuriken on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:47 am

If you think this is bad read the parliamentary logs, would that it were not against "the rules" to go in there and put them all straight. We're being "led" by a bunch of children and have been for over 20 years now

On the plus side, with no credible candidates we'll eventually have to accept that the party politics system doesn't and never has worked
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Re: Political - Cameron on Tax Avoidance

Postby Binerexis on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:33 am

We're in need of party and vote reform.
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Re: Political - Cameron on Tax Avoidance

Postby re# Skilgannon on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:45 am

we are in need of people actually getting off their backsides and actually making their feelings known

the biggest threat to the political system in this country is voter apathy

those in power know we are a nation whingers who in the main talk the talk but cant be bothered to walk to the polling station every 4 years so they know they can get away with shed loads of dodgey dealings as the only people who vote these days are those who are in the main blindly loyal
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Re: Political - Cameron on Tax Avoidance

Postby Aceo on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:31 pm

I do think that we need a large overhaul of International Taxation laws and how they work with regards to some incomes. It's just that it would be a very big job to do and could over-complicate the system for anyone on the lower ends of fringes that could be affected.

Also, yep there is far too much voter apathy in this country as it is so actually getting anything done is unlikely to happen. We need some way to encourage voting, it's already damn easy as it is (at least in and around my area) and with mail-in votes for those unable to go to a polling station, the only excuse left is laziness/apathy.
However, how would you even increase voter empathy? If there was any reward, it could just lead to more spoiled votes or worse, random votes put in which could lead to even worse situations. If there were a punishment for none-voting, then it goes against much of the idea of democracy, as it were, you are eliminating one of the choices, which while similar to a spoiled vote, is not precisely the same. I wouldn't mind the idea of people essentially abstaining from votes, so long as their vote was put in and we can see that there are enough people caring to vote, just that none of the current parties are worth voting for. As it is, we only have a too low percent somewhat-caring and the rest not bothering, which gives no good information either way.

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Re: Political - Cameron on Tax Avoidance

Postby Bobbobthebob on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:53 pm

Shuriken wrote:If you think this is bad read the parliamentary logs

Indeed. This is a good one: Richard Brooks’ presentation of evidence of undue influence on tax policy by the largest corporations given to the Commons Treasury Committee in 2011 (Check out points 9 – 11 for a run-down of some of the companies being consulted on how to write the laws that regulate and tax them).

Shuriken wrote: would that it were not against "the rules" to go in there and put them all straight. We're being "led" by a bunch of children and have been for over 20 years now

It’s been going on since neoliberalism came to the fore with Thatcher (so about 34 years and counting). The deregulation of the financial services her government brought about (and continued by all the governments since) helped to create a boom. Socialists began to look like dinosaurs in the face of this and so all our mainstream parties adopted largely the same platform.

We lost as a result a restraining force against rampant deregulation and lax enforcement of business law. We also lost those MPs from more typical backgrounds in the UK (e.g. working class background MPs are thin on the ground compared to when old Labour had former union members as MPs). Our MPs are now typically upper-middle class or above, studied PPE/law/history at Oxbridge or other redbricks and also disproportionately privately educated at primary and secondary level. We laud former business directors as MPs for having “a good business background” as if the ability to operate a dictatorial hierarchical profit-making organisation is what we need to run a democracy and help look after each other. These same businessmen, on leaving politics, then loop back into lucrative non-exec directorships on companies in the same industries that they campaigned for.

All the main parties sing the same line: “There Is No Alternative”; and the electoral reform campaign, which might have created some growth in voices that say “There IS an alternative”, has been scuppered for decades thanks to poor handling by the Lib Dems and some of the worst lies and bad-faith campaigning I’ve ever seen from Labour and the Conservatives. So we won’t see any change even if voter apathy were dealt with. And nevermind the fact that tax law is not sexy and is difficult to understand or explain to the masses (or get the news media to feature on a regular basis as a result. Benefit fraud by comparison is much easier to cover).

I can strongly recommend reading Treasure Islands by Nicholas Shaxson if you're interested in this sort of thing (here's a review: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 18093.html). He also hosts a blog at: http://treasureislands.org/
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