Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

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Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Snowbat on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:40 am

Listen to this one and tell me how absurd this is.
I know I often sound grumpy and assholish on mumble (while I truly am not but that's another story), but I was raised with the value that a man should be chivalrous to ladies. For example, I give my seat to a girl on the bus if she has to stand, I hold doors open, I'll give my sweater to a girl if she's cold, I would defend a woman if she gets bothered by some drunkard in a bar or whatever, etc. I was simply raised to be like that.

One girl once told me recently that it's macho to be like this. Because by being like this, apparently you see the woman as an inferior being that needs the help of men. So, apparently, being chivalrous is being a macho. Great... :roll:

Then, when I was discussing this with someone else, a guy this time, he said that I'm being a stereotype Nice Guy by doing this. You know what we mean with Nice Guys right? A Nice Guy, stereotypically, is a guy who will become a woman's doormat and little pet and be overly nice just in the hopes he can get in her pants.
Like Safire once said in I don't remember what thread: "women aren't machines that you put niceness coins in till sex comes out". Well Nice Guys do exactly that: be nice to a girl so he can hopefully get some sex in return.

I'm not like this. If I'm chivalrous, it's because I just think it's the way a mean should treat a woman. My parents, more specifically my mother, just raised me like this. I don't hold doors open nor do I help a girl carry her heavy package because I'm a doormat or because I want her to strip down and give me sex afterwards (sorry for being vulgar). I do this because I'm a good person... that's all.
At work, when I help a girl carry a heavy ass printer to another room, my colleagues just say idiocies like "*gigglegiggle* you hope to score with her". Can a man not be chivalrous to women any more without everyone assuming you're secretly just trying to find your way into her pants?

What do you think? And ladies, if you would like to share the woman's perspective on this, please, be my guest.
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby PedalBin on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:54 am

Not really sure how to reply to this just seems you are defending yourself, first off I'd say you worry too much about what other poeple think but yea moving on..

I would hold the door open as much for a man as I would for a woman and I would carry a printer for a man as much as I would for a woman if necessary, I would also help a man if he was getting bothered by a drunkard in a bar. Saying what you have said in this post indicates to me that yes you are being particularly chivalrous to women in order to win over a woman but maybe you didn't just show the other side.

I've always believed in 'The Selfish Gene' in which basically it tells us it is programmed in our genes that every action we take us in order to win over a woman (or the sex you are attracted to) and yes this seems to make sense as it is only natural. I really think you worry about it too much of course a man can do things for a woman not just to get in her pants but why think about it. Just be nice and do what you'd like to do! After all its fine to be attracted to them and go out your way to help!

Attraction =/= sex


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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Shuriken on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:04 am

I used to be quite courteous until I realised nobody else cares. You get no credit for extra effort and most people don't even notice when you do give a crap about them/someone else. People think I'm selfish now but at least I don't have to put up with their judgemental bullshit for not being an ass to people.

Stereotypes = a lazy persons way of thinking, if you can't get them to challenge a mis/preconception about chivalry then there's no hope for them, their opinions are about as valid as any other thing that wastes oxygen. This doesn't arrest the fact that people will wax lyrical on things they think they understand and judge you based on their idiocy, sadly I don't think anything will stop this short of being allowed to set them on fire.

I hold doors for all sexes but no man or woman is ever getting my coat lol
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Flare on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:51 am

Dont worry about what others think so much, just do as you feel is polite and if someone gets the wrong idea retract your offer and disregard them, dont even enter a discussion with them about it.
You know you are not after anything, you know what your motives are and as such that is what is important... not some unsocial insecure stranger you just met.
Sometimes keeping an eye on your stats is not a good thing :P

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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Cotillion on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:54 am

I hold the door open for anybody and if a person needs a hand i mostly will help. and this is not gender related. I help women and men where i can.

Off course i sometimes get the same responses, but i do not care. on the other hand i sometimes start a discussion about it, and why they project there feelings on to me. And what makes them think i want to get into a girls pants when i'm just a nice guy in general. Sort of giving them back there nonsense
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby EWJ on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:05 am

As others have said, I open doors for people cos I'm polite and was brought up to do as such. I couldn't give a toss what other people think of it. Its what i think of it thats important to me.
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Security on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:09 pm

We live in a world where people seem to think that every nice thing someone does has a secondary motive (and with many people this is true), it is useless to argue with close minded people (being close minded is just another form of stupidity if you ask me) like that as you will not win.
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Joss on Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:45 pm

EWJ wrote:As others have said, I open doors for people cos I'm polite and was brought up to do as such. I couldn't give a toss what other people think of it. Its what i think of it thats important to me.


Second that.


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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby re# Skilgannon on Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:40 pm

if someone acts like that with me I think they are generally polite, kind and thoughful tbh

but then I am old ;)
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Aceo on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:18 pm

[quote=Snowbat]I'm not like this. If I'm chivalrous, it's because I just think it's the way a mean should treat a woman.[/quote]

I think the main issue is here, as may have been said by others already. Don't just be nice to women, be nice to people.


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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby The Knife on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:39 pm

TLDR version: Dumb feminists.
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Snowbat on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:46 pm

Well I do hold doors for everyone obviously. I was referring to women specifically because it's only when I do something courteous to them that I get such reactions.
Obviously, when i give my seat to an elderly, whether he's man or woman, or when I hold the door open for a guy, I don't get such remarks. If I see a guy struggling to carry something alone, of course I'll give him a hand.
But I didn't specify that because it wasn't directly relevant to the remarks I get (the "nice guy" and "macho" thing)
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby re# Skilgannon on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:56 pm

tbh girls dont know a good thing these days!
for she is the Cat that walks by herself, and all places are alike to her

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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Aceo on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:56 pm

[quote=Snowbat]when I help a girl carry a heavy ass printer to another room, my colleagues just say idiocies like "*gigglegiggle* you hope to score with her"[/quote]
[quote=The Knife]TLDR version: Dumb feminists.[/quote]

Apparently your coworkers are not the problem...

Now, since I've had pizza since last response gonna try something longer and, hopefully, coherent.

When you're raising a chivalrous child, that is the whole help women wherever you can, open doors and check their okay with even the simplest of things, what are you really telling them? Are you saying to help because it's good, or are you saying that women need the help regardless or whether they've asked for it, or been asked first if they want it?

Now, fast forward to a time say 25-30years later, this belief has never been challenged. They're in charge of recruiting someone, a mixture of people of genders and race. Is this thought still in the back of their mind?
Why couldn't they have been brought up believing that anyone could use some help sometime? Tie this into the reluctance of most men and going to the doctors, they're taught not to ever ask for help, that needing help is a feminine thing. Tie it into male suicide rates, 'men don't need help, where do i go?'

Hopefully this was understandable...


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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Binerexis on Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:21 pm

Be nice because you want to be nice, stop worrying about what other people think.
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby re# Skilgannon on Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:35 pm

yup be yourself!
for she is the Cat that walks by herself, and all places are alike to her

no matter how many times I put together the great jigsaw of life there is always the same integral piece missing that prevents the picture from being complete Annabel Rose Hardwick
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Cotillion on Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:51 pm

I totally agree with that.
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Bobbobthebob on Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:36 pm

Actual chivalry as professed by medieval knights was totally fubar anyway (as an example, it was considered chivalrous to take a city in siege and not harm the citizens upon doing so. Unfortunately, most peasants were considered beneath this kind of concern so raping and killing them didn't really break the rules). What we talk about as chivalry now is some parody version the Victorians came up with when reimagining their past for a nationalistic narrative.

Holding a door open for someone isn't chivalry it's just common courtesy and you should do it for anyone.
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby ApacheFlame on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:39 am

I suppose it is a matter of viewpoint.

I am sexist with my other half, not intentionally, I just am. I carry the heavier bags of shopping. I am first to pull out my credit card if we go to dinner (even though she earns more than me), I hold doors open (although I do this for everyone).

In return she is sexist towards me. I usually get the bigger plate of food, if the portions are uneven etc. In reality I could lose a few pounds and she could do with gaining some

I do not think that she cant cope with any of the things I do for her, it is just what I do and have always done. It is not pleasant to carry heavy shopping and so I would rather spare her the unpleasantness.

Getting back to my original point. From 1 point of view I am being a nice person and treating her to dinner or whatever. From a different point of view I am saying that I should pay because she earns less than me or I need to be the alpha male provider.

Live your life by this question, if you feel you must validate your actions. 'Am I being a dick by doing this?' As long as your intentions are clear then do what makes you happy, as long as your intentions are not 'I am being nice to you, sex please!'.

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I realise it is an old track, but the points are still valid.

Let's take it to a bit of a meta place. Ignore the commandments, except the last. Thou shalt think for yourself. It doesn't matter what other people think of you, just worry about whether you are doing the right thing in your eyes.
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Re: Being chilvalrous as a men towards women

Postby Cotillion on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:36 am

Epic song though Apache :) and indeed, Thou shalt think for yourself.
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