Censorship Online to protect the children

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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Binerexis on Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:03 am

Glad to see you enjoyed the video :)
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Security on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:14 am

Last time when a guy with red hair was ranting on the internet people also liked it. :P
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Little_Devil on Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:41 pm

MrRapidByte wrote:. They should get random 12 year olds and see if they can do what they claim and if 1 fails to know how, then the claim is rubbish.

I have news for you, if a kid is willing to do that, then there is also something wrong with the kid. Child supervision is required, not 100% of the time but a HIGH majority of the time when kids are first learning to use the internet and here is something, maybe some common sense advice from parents.

I am a parent and I am for sure going to monitor what my daughter does online, make sure she is safe, get involved with what she is doing and how she is acting, say it be social media or online chatrooms or gaming communities. If you bring up your kids right then this kind of thing wont be an issue, its just an issue for lazy parents and doing this mass censorship is not the way forward or the way to stop it from happening.

It seems like they are trying to compile a list of people who view porn, for what means? What are they going to do with this information, where and how are they going to store it and for how long? Will they monitor those peoples' internet who asked to opt in to see the adult content?

About the whole claim that Google is the biggest host of child porn, how much rubbish is that, if that were true Google would also be the biggest host of copyright infringing content, just because they can link to it.....its not the same thing, linking to something is not the same as hosting something.

So overall, they are just taking, and I use this term loosely, data, mashing it all up and around, then trying to use it to match there point is just stupid. Show us some solid research which matches your claims, back it up with the studies to show the long term effects on kids and how you prove all of this and then I will even agree to the censorship, since I am fully against this censorship, I know they can never do this, thus I will never have to agree with it.

Sorry for the long post, good video though buddy :)


Many good points.

A random panel of 12 year old's would never actually be random, if it was handled by government, they always pick and choose statistics that will show there own argument in good light, and don't mention adverse results. You can easily see this by the way they have handled unemployment figures for years. They first drum up support by labelling anyone that is out of work, as scroungers and tell you there a x billion pounds spent, then tell you there new policies are working by choosing a time when unemployment is at an annual low to prove their point. Then use snapshots of statistics to prove their policies are directly responsible for the results shown. Additionally you can see the same thing to a lesser extent with there handling of public sector workers, targeting local councils, and by the same token avoiding all the high paid rats in central government, and ministry offices.

If a kid is willing to do something then there is something wrong, but you have to take into account the age and experience of a child, It won't be a show me yours I will show you mine syndrome. Apparently, and according to some sensible reporting, these kids are groomed over a long period of time, if the child is resistant, the twat doing it moves on and tries with someone new. it would not surprise me one bit, if there were a group of kids all being targeted at one time, the easiest one or the one most promiscuous being picked off for special attention.
Kids, even supervised, will find ways out of a supervision, no matter how vigilant a parent is. I agree that the best way forward is good grooming by the parents and being more of a friend with a no holds barred attitude to discussing anything. If a child wants to know something, or feels that a parent would either be cross or embarrassed, then that child will go anywhere else to find an answer. Sadly many parents will bring a child into the world, and because of their own hangups about sex or in fact anything that is counter to their own belief system, end up not talking to their siblings about certain subjects.

Governments like statistics, and compiling a list of people is just another way to tighten the stranglehold on its populace. Who would dare speak out ? and then get labelled as a perv by media or government, because they don't agree.

As far as Google is concerned, it is just Government trying to get around to placing more legislation in place, to quell the biggest threat to any government, and that is free speech and social media. It would not matter if the search engine was call barglewargle or any number of other names, and was well used, Google is just the first step in limiting your freedom, not that you have much of that left. You are just a little fish swimming around happily in a big fish tank, that slowly, by legislation, funnels you through to ever smaller tanks.

The biggest threat to any government is free speech and they will use the media to their own ends, together with selective statistics to try to get their own way.
Societies in general are manipulated by large bodies to achieve goals that have nothing to do with what the populace actually want.

I tend to find society that is so mixed up about themselves leads to more of this. They wrap their kids up, because they are scared of this or that, governments take advantage of this to impose new legislation under the guise of helping, and the choke hold is tightened, once again, on the whole populace. When we have Newspapers and media in general displaying pictures of ever younger models and child like figures then what does everyone expect. If you associate these pictures with sex, you are going to get more pervs, not less, and no amount of legislation will ever compensate, and yet we don't see any government tackling the route cause.

I could say much more, but guess it too long already. :)
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby MrRapidByte on Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:07 pm

Yeah I am well aware of the bias they would put when selecting kids for the research and such. I have done loads of studying about panels, groups, blind tests and the like for this kind of thing and know many ways how it is indeed not random, but still.

I could literally talk about this topic for hours and hours, but I will not bore you all with my ramblings about it all the time :) Just know this, it should not happen for the reasons they are saying as they are non sense and simply a cover story to use as a legal presidence so that they can further mute the general population at a later date.
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Wizav on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:28 pm

I really don't see what the problem is, if you want to watch porn ring up and keep it activated. The problems solved by blocking it outweigh the inconvenience of making a phone call.


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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby MrRapidByte on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:32 am

Wizav wrote:I really don't see what the problem is, if you want to watch porn ring up and keep it activated. The problems solved by blocking it outweigh the inconvenience of making a phone call.
I suggest you watch the video by the original poster and perhaps read some others comments. It is not as simple as they are claiming it to be, it is so they can control the media further (beyond this porn thing) and get rights to govern the censor the internet from us all, without due reason.
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Binerexis on Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:15 am

Wizav wrote:I really don't see what the problem is, if you want to watch porn ring up and keep it activated. The problems solved by blocking it outweigh the inconvenience of making a phone call.


A phone call that you have to make every single day because some parents can't be bothered to actually supervise and care for their kids. Why can't they look after their kids instead of making the whole country pay for it? Seems way more convenient and easy.

That's not even touching on the fact that this could potentially be the start of further censorship.
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Little_Devil on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:00 am

Cameron has already been told by Jimmy Wales of Wikipedia, his own advisor, that it will not work. Wales probably now realises that a curb of this nature is just another boot into the internet world, and could cost him money in having to edit entries in Wikipedia.
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Binerexis on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:40 am

Well the Wikipedia entries are supposed to be the 'good' kind which is allowed but as mentioned previously, it'd be impossible to police.
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Wizav on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:18 pm

You won't have to contact your ISP every day, you just opt-out of the block. I think it's unfair to make generalizations about parents and call them lazy. Parents have a lot of responsibilities and some both work full time jobs, cooking , house chores and everything else they can't be sat with there children every minute making sure no porn appears on the internet, that doesn't make them lazy and they can't supervise when the children aren't at home. Kids don't want to be supervised 24/7 either and parents want to feel safe knowing there children won't be exposed.

Asking everyone to learn how to setup filters and learn about that stuff is a lot more inconvenient than having to opt-out with a phone call and it does nothing to help limit illegal/abusive porn and the people who make and use it.

What further censorship? you can still watch all the legal porn you want if that's what you want. They will never be able to permanently censor or stop you having access to anything that is perfectly legal and i honestly don't think they would even try, This isn't North Korea. Obviously it's not going to be 100% smooth and there will be problems, but nothing permanent and it will improve, Cameron is already removing soft core porn from the block so that educational and other sites do not get effected but they wont anyway if you just opt-out which is incredibly easy thing to do.

Why is there so much focus on parents and insulting them. Nobody rages about the watershed or adult content on TV being blocked/locked until specific times or requiring the use of a pin number. Let's remove all of that and call parents lazy for not supervising children watching TV as well shall we cause i don't see any difference at all between the two when talking specifically about the parents, censorship and others issues aside.


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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Binerexis on Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:17 pm

From a related article:

"Features such as time-limited deactivation of filtering and email updates when filter settings are changed are expected to become widespread. "We will have automatic put on, so if you turn the filter off at 9pm, it turns on again at 7am," said Perry."

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013 ... k-by-2014/


So yes, it will be turned back on every day.

The pin numbers you set up on the TV to stop kids looking at stuff are set up by the parents and are opt-in. This online censorship isn't opt-in at all, people are getting forced into it. The reason why there's so much focus on parents here is because it's their job to supervise their children and keep them safe. If they don't give a shit what their kids look at online or don't want to supervise them, that's fine. However, they then can't flip their shit when their child comes across something that the parents object to. This entire bill is being put through on the basis that parents cannot or will not supervise their kids online and therefore everyone has to pay for it which is absolute A-grade bullshit on the side of the government. What's even worse is that the government are brushing aside the fact that you can contact your ISP to opt OUT of pornographic/'age inappropriate' content.

If a parent isn't supervising what their kids are doing and get all pissy when they come across something, that's the parent's fault. It's all easily preventable on their side of things. There is no reason to implement something which affects everyone else because they couldn't be arsed to supervise their kids or set up a child lock. You may think it's unfair to call such parents lazy or irresponsible but that doesn't change the fact.


You may be happy with these new laws. I, however, am not. If you want to have your life dictated to you because some idiots can't be bothered to watch over their spawn then, once again, that's fine. I refuse to do so.


EDIT:

Wizav wrote:
Asking everyone to learn how to setup filters and learn about that stuff is a lot more inconvenient than having to opt-out with a phone call and it does nothing to help limit illegal/abusive porn and the people who make and use it.



Having a blanket default ban on porn that you have to refresh every day won't get rid of the supply or demand for such pornography. The government can (and already does) go after the creators of such material without putting out censorship online.
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Wizav on Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:01 pm

If it gets automatically re-activated everyday i'll give everyone in this thread £50 there's no way it will ever work like that it's gotta be a mistake that's ridiculous. Even if that is the case surely you can just tell your ISP to keep it activated all the time.


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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Binerexis on Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:16 pm

It's not a mistake, it's what one of the ministers who pushed to have it implimented has said they're planning on doing. Besides, that aspect of it is completely side-stepping the issue at hand which is responsible adults are being told they have to have special permission by mummy and daddy Government in order to look at age appropriate material.
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Little_Devil on Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:46 pm

Wizav wrote:Kids don't want to be supervised 24/7 either and parents want to feel safe knowing there children won't be exposed.


You are correct, however it does not take much time to contact an ISP and ask for a block, in fact most will only be too happy to help out and show you how to set your own modem to block porn.

Lets face it, this piece of proposed legislation has absolutely nothing to do with blocking porn, it is just another carriage to stir people up into backing up this Government into forcing though a piece of legislation that most people will not want around. We now have more legislation on the books in the past 12 years than at any other time, just by way of Government goading the less well informed into backing up Government at the time, only finding out at a later date they have been allowed to get away with actions, that any true free country would be up in arms about.

Why on earth propose something that will make most people feel guilty over watching porn. It is about time this country got out of the Victorian era.
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Flare on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:50 am

One thing is certain, Government (any party) should never be the defenders of a nations morales it is way too open to abuse and misuse.
The old apartheid era South African government was firmly into Christian beliefs :roll: , and basically imposed rules based on those lines including deciding what was appropriate in society or not.
Had very illogical issues happening all over the place, like for example as a 18 year old in the army I was allowed to fire a weapon, potentially kill another human when given the order but wasn't allowed to view adult material (cannot view adult material until age 21), hell even the adult magazines had censorship stars on the relevant bits and pieces... oh and it wasn't that none of us could get hold of porn, all too easily and the fact it was illegal made it even more intriguing.
I remember the local TV station advertising a Carry On movie set for a Saturday night at about 9pm, it got cancelled because after the review and censorship board finished with it there was only about 20 minutes left of the movie :roll:
Just look at the Australian rating system for a great example of stupidity when Governments start to decide what is appropriate or not for adults, Saints Row IV... had to be censored due to a alien anal probe gun and so called positive use of drugs, :lol: as if shooting pixels with a anal probe gun is like having forced sex with others and the game is saying taking drugs makes you a super hero (unless its alien drugs from outer space).

Now personally I am not that concerned about the porn censorship issue, its really that it puts measures into place that facilitate censorship but no guarantee it will stop at just filtering porn, or that the phone to clear the filter will actually clear ALL the filters.
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Re: Censorship Online to protect the children

Postby Nymphette Sparkles on Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:30 pm

@Binerexis, I loved the video, I agree with everything you said.

I think the Government are using this is a stepping stone to wider censorship covering all kinds of activities/topics. Education is very important, we see alot of our older generations making mistakes because they were not educated enough about sex. We still have problems with people being stupid and not using a condom however I feel that the education we have had access to has helped most of us. I wonder how much education we would actually have access to if this censorship were put into place and if Sex ed classes would be taught in schools anymore....
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