Scottish Independence

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Re: Scottish Independance

Postby MrsRapidByte on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:10 am

Love Muffin wrote:Will Scotland have to make their own currency?
Will Scotland be able to use the NHS or would that go as well?

It's best to stay as the United Kingdom, what will happen to the Union Jack?


For a start we have our own currency we have Scottish banknotes , which are still the same Sterling Pound but with places and people of Scottish importance printed on them.

For those of you who don't follow devolved power it will be good for yous to know that Health is a devolved power meaning Scotland pays from it's share in taxes and private investments for its health care system and the development of better care. So will Scotland be able to use the NHS of course we will. We pay for our own health care in fact we provide more free at the point of use health care than anywhere else in the UK; we actually care for our elderly :shock: we provide personal care for the elderly which England has failed to do. We also have free eye tests here something yet again England failed to provide all it's citizens.

Let's move onto another devolved power, Education. We fund, provide and developed our own education here in Scotland, which at a quick glance of this thread is providing a better education than England :P As yet again Scotland pays tuition fees for the majority of it's university students, England doesn't even come close to this. Not only that Scotland is set to widen it's gap on better education over England as we do not allow unqualified teachers in our School unlike England. Secondly we encourage independent learning through the Curriculum for Excellence; which is a learning model based on personal growth and the believe that every child matters and has potential to excel unlike England who follow an outdated model of education known as molding a concept that stems from the 1946 Education Act (the date should tell you how outdated it is) so while English education is based on molding where every child is only capable of achieving things in accordance to their age and gender. The Scottish system views each child as an individual capable of anything regardless of their age or gender.

If we can achieve better education and a more diverse health care system with devolved powers the possibility of achieving more when independent for me is more than worth the risk of independence. People worry will Scotland be able to afford it, who knows as no one knows exactly how finances will be split during the "divorce". I do however know that Mr Cameron is set to gather £700, 000, 000 in dept from his 5 years in Westminster so the UK on a whole is out of cash, we are massively in debt and I for one would rather be in dept providing for my own people than for the majority of dept to be in a country I gain nothing from. This dept gained by people over 400 miles away who do whats best for their own constituencies, the majority of which are in England it's about time we were allowed to do whats best for us. Our social and economic structures are different and we are drifting further a part by the day and power needs to change with that before we all crash and burn.

As for what would happen to the Union Jack no one puts it better than Ray Charles "Hit the Road Jack" :P

Last edited by MrsRapidByte on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby re# Skilgannon on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:13 am

*debt* (great indication of the Scottish education system there ;) )
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby EWJ on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:16 am

Lets keep it friendly.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby re# Skilgannon on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:18 am

I was pulling her leg hence the ;) :)

oh and the only school that have "Unqualified" teachers are the free schools which are not under LA control and of those only a very very few have unqualified teachers on site and its about to be legislated against

and you still haven't explained how you propose to pay for it all
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby ApacheFlame on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:26 pm

I am intrigued to see what happens to higher education. I see tuition fees on the horizon.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Little_Devil on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:47 pm

Has everyone seen the recent news from some clod, that England doesn't think it could have British Warships built on the Clyde, this from a Conservative party that made sure there were few English shipyards left.

I do take exception to this (English corrected ) :P

I do however know that Mr Cameron is set to gather £700, 000, 000 in debt from his 5 years in Westminster so the UK on a whole is out of cash, we are massively in debt and I for one would rather be in debt providing for my own people than for the majority of debt to be in a country I gain nothing from. This debt gained by people over 400 miles away who do what's best for their own constituencies, the majority of which are in England it's about time we were allowed to do what's best for us.


Cameron has run up more debt than that, given the fact he undersold the Royal Mail, and the Conservative party will sell off anything they can get their greedy little hands on, just to make it look as if they are not running up huge debt. Whereas in real terms, net debt in the UK has risen from 57.1pc of GDP when they took power to 71.8pc last year. Excluding the Bank bailouts which were needed, this Government has racked up more debt than the previous 2 Governments, and That Includes selling off the good part of Northern Rock (they kept the loss making part) and the Royal Mail. The Conservatives have already said they would want to sell off the National Forests to private companies and any national treasure in Scotland would get the same fate.
Maggie Thatcher did that by selling off every nationalised industry she could at the time, and the country still ended up in debt. Cameron is doing the same, and would do the same to Scotland, not that he hasn't lined the pockets of his buddies already in Scotland.

As far as England is concerned, I agree it is certain constituencies, mainly around London, yet again, but please don't lump the rest of the country in with this idiots gains.

tbh I think Scotland will be better off without these Conservative scum bags, and the ever fluctuating politics from London, which does nothing for the rest of the country. A better Idea would be to have England and Scotland devolve from London, we would all be better off :)

p.s. Just so you can see how low this Government will stoop to make it look as if they are not in as much debt
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 18029.html

Maggie did the same by selling off the Tax Office and the DVLA
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby MrsRapidByte on Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:01 pm

3,446 Academies in England 1,300 are semi private schools with a further 319 sponsored Schools; which under legislation allows them to employ unqualified teachers. That's over a third of schools in England allowed to hire unqualified teachers meaning they can pay staff less and deliver an unqualified education I can certainly see how England finances itself :wink:

Now how to fund it hmmmm for a start Westminster can stop its jack up of taxes on North Sea profits, we need the oil market to be encouraged for future development and Westminster is hindering that. Wind turbines on the central belt and highlands are set to provide us with a good profit as well as cleaner energy. Foreign investment in Scotland has increased the most notable recently being a £1bn investment in a new Scottish golf course.

I don't however think Scottish independence will be won over money and I don't even think money will be a deciding factor. In today's world it's all about social status. It how you are seen, who you are seen with and but most importantly aspirations and self worth. England has a lot of bad press you can see view it in reputable Newspapers and to the likes of Eurotrash. It's why London NHS alone spent £2.8 on public relations more than double what our entire health board spent. If we are a part perhaps our global reputation will improve and the rest of the world can view us as Scotland rather than assuming we are English. How many times has a Scottish person been abroad and been asked "so you're from England?" :roll: or seen in a Tv show or Movie the UK being classed as just England - time to get back some national identity.

If Scotland splits from the UK it's a chance to been seen in a different light. It's a chance to inspire and motivate people to change as right now we are all in decline, and I know its just a chance but it has to be better than what we have now - we are on a path to becoming Argentina :( I have nothing against English people in fact half my family come from England I just think Scotland is different from England and there is no point pushing legislation on Scotland that is designed with the best interests of England. It's like being in a family where the parents do all they can for their favorite child and let the others drift by.

It shouldn't be just a question of how we propose to pay for it all. Have you asked yourself how you propose to get by without us? Even without Independence how is the UK going to pay for it all? UK National debt just doubled in the last 5 years and the trend is set to continue... UK National debt is set to be 99% of GDP in 2014 there is no way we can pay it back unless we look at the fact that 70% of our debt is held within the UK in things like pension funds and this is where Scotland is best to cut ties as the majority of those pension funds are in England and if we have to go to the austerity cuts we need to actually tackle the National debt then Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are by far better off being alone.

England has over 50million people to provide for we have just over 5million with more natural resources, increased investments and in the central belt we have just as much wealth as much of London and the South, and those taxes would be staying in Scotland if we got independence. Every year for 30 years Scotland has generated more tax revenue per head for the UK treasury than the rest of the UK. The latest figures taken from the Government Expenditure and revenue report Scotland (GERS) state that Scotland generated 9.9% of the UK’s tax revenue but received only 9.3% of spending. This equated last year to £824.00 extra revenue per person from Scotland versus the rest of the UK, all of which goes to the UK treasury. This money would be staying in Scotland - so Scotland can pay for Independence but how will England pay for itself? More employing unqualified teachers? perhaps cutting pensions? or increasing retirement age again? or better yet through discrimination by denying those from poorer backgrounds the chance of further education!

The UK runs on a surplus or more simply a honey pot. Scotland contributes more to the surplus, we bring more pollen, and when the UK runs a deficit and we owe other beehives more honey Scotland has to pay more of the debt back than it is responsible for :!:

Better off with a chance to rule ourselves than continue down the path we are on. No one is exactly winning every Nation is in debt and has social issues its just a question of how much and what you can do to slow it down :|


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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby re# Skilgannon on Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:25 pm

erm there are more than 3446 schools in England

According to the school characteristics statistical first release (SFR) (using January 2013 school census) there were 24,328 schools in England.

http://www.education.gov.uk/popularques ... in-england?

this means that 5.3% of schools are currently legally allowed to employ "unqualified" teachers which is if you are taking it as the 1300 (which is incorrect information as well)
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby re# Skilgannon on Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:29 pm

and tbh I cant see why you are throwing your arguments at me, firstly it doesn't bother me one jot if Scotland goes independent and secondly I have dual nationality so I can bugger off whenever I want to, the only thing that keeps me in the UK is that my son's father wouldn't allow me to re-locate my son overseas and I am dammed if I would go without him!

and I think England would do fine without Scotland (lets face it it cant do much worse than it is now LOL!)
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Little_Devil on Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:31 pm

England has over 50million people to provide for we have just over 5million with more natural resources, increased investments and in the central belt we have just as much wealth as much of London and the South, and those taxes would be staying in Scotland if we got independence


and so would 10% of the debt. UK debt includes the whole of the UK, not just England.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Ger-h on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:02 pm

As a Irish man.fair play to England allowing Scotland to have the choice to stay or spilt away.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Bobbobthebob on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:34 am

Referendum day is almost upon us and as we all know, the real question is:

  • Should Scotland vote for independence, will it remain "UKCS" or will we have to split into "ScotCS" and "rUKCS"? :P
  • And what will happen to the Union Jack in the logo!?
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Binerexis on Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:11 pm

Well we'd certainly have to change the flag, that's for sure!

Personally, I have no idea whether or not Scotland will actually get independence. The few Scottish friends I've talked to about it have all said the same thing: "We've heard a lot of promises but not hard numbers on exactly what going independent will mean or if we can sustain it". Either way, I hope everything works out for Scotland.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Bobbobthebob on Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:47 pm

Heh, just realised my profile still had me down as a Londoner!

No one really knows how it'll go. Polls have consistently shown No having an over 50% share when undecided voters are left out but it looks like the margin has tightened in the last few days. The undecided voters could yet change it on the day. I'll be interested to see what the turnout is like too; I suspect this is going to be one of the best attended public votes in years.

As a recently arrived Englishman, I've mainly kept my mouth shut and listened in on local chat at work and elsewhere about independence and it's true, the major thing brought up has been the total lack of clarity from both sides. There's a good number of people that I've met who seem genuinely torn over the decision and don't trust the politicians' promises.

There is a marked asymmetry I've noticed though: that the Yes campaign has had to present its argument as to why independence would help Scotland, but the No campaign (as far as I see it) has focused almost solely on attacking those arguments and not showing why the status quo and the UK's current trajectory is any better.

For example, talk of EU membership has come up several times and people talk about how Scotland would have to negotiate re-entry all while ignoring the elephant in the room that is the UKIP-voting majority in England and the proposed EU referendum that could see Scotland leaving the EU altogether without a choice in the matter.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Little_Devil on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:27 pm

Whether or not Scotland votes for political independence, since the UK is a Royal Family issue, then will the royal family have to give up lands in Scotland taken by military conquest ?

I was in Wales quite recently and saw banners stating, if Scotland can do it, why not Wales ?

lol I did hear that even Cornwall wanted independence :P
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Shuriken on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:40 pm

I think a lot of people are confusing scottish independence with scotland distancing itself from the planet of london. Really not enough information being presented for anyone to make an informed decision so it's all going to go tits up.

Personally I think it's madness to even consider it when you can't even give a definitive answer to what you're actually voting for or against
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Enigma on Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:52 am

You should blame the Westminster for all of this. They had 300 years to make Scotland more devolved. Scotland has currently less powers than states in the USA.
Can't fully set their own taxes. Budget for Scottish government is allocated by Westminster. Not being able to control welfare policy... And I could go on and on.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Little_Devil on Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:50 pm

I don't think people are confused at all.

An independent Scotland does mean it has more power to do things, however this Conservative Government, have come out with a lot of knee jerk statements, that they have not backed up with fact.
It has been more of a stick and carrot approach, which is typical of this Government, "If you don't vote for independence we will do .......". So why don't they do, what they are saying they are going to do, unconditionally. Probably its because they have no intention of implementing any of the measures, and are just duping people. Lets not forget both this and the last Government said there would be a vote on the EU and yet we are coming to the end of this Government and still no vote.

Why should anyone trust any politician of the London Government, since it only the capital they actually care about and stuff the rest of England let alone any other country within the UK, until it looks as if they are going to loose tax money.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Bobbobthebob on Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:53 pm

Little_Devil wrote:Whether or not Scotland votes for political independence, since the UK is a Royal Family issue, then will the royal family have to give up lands in Scotland taken by military conquest ?

I think the plan is to retain the monarchy in the same way that the Queen is head of state of Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc. That said, I know there's a lot of talk of land reform here including making the Crown Estate more accountable (it has huge amounts of land in Scotland and a poor reputation for its stewardship). Land reform in some measure is due to come regardless of the outcome of the referendum though as per the Land Reform Review Group's final report which came out in May.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Enigma on Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:40 am

I just realized that if Scotland goes independent, it's gonna lose BBC with all its brilliant shows.
Bargain Hunt, Cash In The Attic, Fake Britain, Saints and Scroungers, Doctor Who, Doctors, and most importantly EastEnders.
It's going to be a true tragedy for the great Scottish nation to lose BBC.
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