PCI, PCI Express or AGP?

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PCI, PCI Express or AGP?

Postby JCEE on Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:37 pm

While doing an assignment for my course i have been writing about the graphic cards, and i wanna clear something up...

The AGP slot is better than the PCI for graphics cards?

What is PCI Express?? i swear i miss too much im always slow at keeping up with things.

So what is the difference between PCI and PCI express? or are they the same slots.

Is PCI Express new???

thanx my fellow experts


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Postby La Chavvy on Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:49 pm

I dont know much but:

PCI - EXPRESS = BIG DADDY

AGP 8 X = Little sister

PCI = Baby todd

Think of it like that.

PCI and PCI-E do not share the same input thing! PCI-E is brand new as well sorry forgot to mention!


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Postby ^Brigatisti^ on Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:20 pm

Chavvy is t3h right PCI-Express for the win!


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Postby Little_Devil on Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:01 pm

Basically the older computers had ISA bus, this was for connecting peripheral devices to the computer and act as an interface to the system bus. As technology is ever moving forward, it was soon realised that this type of system of interface was just too slow.

Along comes PCI, more interface pins greater flexibility and higher transfer rates to the CPU interface bus.

Everything goes swimmingly well untill, oops now we have Graphics cards that could do with an even faster transfer rate.
AGP comes along, to all intents and purposes connected through a special interface directly to the CPU, can't get any faster than that can you?
2112MB/s

Ah but the poor old PCI, technology stands still for no person, Sata drives and other peripherals require more bandwidth than the old PCI can give.
PCI-Express is now born.

There are 6 different flavours of PCI-Express
x1, x2, x16 for the consumer market at the moment, the others x4 x8 x12 will most likely be reserved for the server market.

Here are the relevant speeds for this interface(consumer).
x1 500MB/s (Single Data Lane - Both Directions)
x2 1000MB/s (Dual Data Lane - Both Directions)
x16 8000MB/s (4000MB/s Per Direction (Two Directions))

As you can see the data transfer rate at x16 on the PCI-Express is faster than the AGP x8.

This is how it stands at present, however you must remember this has been brought out by Intel, and it would not surprise me one bit if a new x16 standard for AGP came out.

Hope this clears things up a bit.
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Postby Little_Devil on Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:17 pm

^Brigatisti^ wrote:Chavvy is t3h right PCI-Express for the win!


Just seen your post after I wrote the previous one.

PCIe is still in its infancy so there is to need to worry about this.

As for Graphics cards AGP still offers the best solution at present, with its allready high bandwidth.
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Postby Ace of Spades on Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:23 pm

AGP will be here for a few more years.

We still havent reached the limits of AGP, i feel we need to hit these limits before we upgrade or take PCI - E as a serious new Graphics Port.
At the moment it is being used as a gimmic. We can still run uber systems on an AGP motherboard.
Yes PCI-E is fast, you can even get boards with PCI-E but not the 16x port which means you can use AGP.

And also know we have Boards that can take DDR 1 & 2, AGP, PCI-E (all forms) and PCI. The motherboard is for you to slowly progress to new technology.

Also a quick mention to SLI, This was first used on good old PCI slots wiv Voodo cards, cant remeber the name it had tho. But this was the orignal SLI setup. With AGP we could not have this or maybe it wasnt looked into.

Now with PCI-E we can have SLI agen, not really sure it gnna be good, once ur Gfx getting to behind your gnna buy a new one, not add another and hope to get a slight imporvment.

So for your project just nick any of my stuff.

If your into computing i would get "Custom PC" mag, full of gr8 new hardware comming out, shame i cant b assed to get it from town ne more lol.
Good mag tho, i reccomend.
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Postby FCUK! on Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:28 pm

Ace of Spades wrote:AGP will be here for a few more years.

We still havent reached the limits of AGP, i feel we need to hit these limits before we upgrade or take PCI - E as a serious new Graphics Port.
At the moment it is being used as a gimmic. We can still run uber systems on an AGP motherboard.
Yes PCI-E is fast, you can even get boards with PCI-E but not the 16x port which means you can use AGP.

And also know we have Boards that can take DDR 1 & 2, AGP, PCI-E (all forms) and PCI. The motherboard is for you to slowly progress to new technology.

Also a quick mention to SLI, This was first used on good old PCI slots wiv Voodo cards, cant remeber the name it had tho. But this was the orignal SLI setup. With AGP we could not have this or maybe it wasnt looked into.

Now with PCI-E we can have SLI agen, not really sure it gnna be good, once ur Gfx getting to behind your gnna buy a new one, not add another and hope to get a slight imporvment.

So for your project just nick any of my stuff.

If your into computing i would get "Custom PC" mag, full of gr8 new hardware comming out, shame i cant b assed to get it from town ne more lol.
Good mag tho, i reccomend.
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Postby Ace of Spades on Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:33 pm

:P Well :lol:
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Postby Junglist on Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:46 pm

Ace of Spades wrote:If your into computing i would get "Custom PC" mag, full of gr8 new hardware comming out, shame i cant b assed to get it from town ne more lol.
Good mag tho, i reccomend.


OMG, that mag is the root of all evil!
It proper killed my community by introducing the worst kind of n00b to the overclocking&modding world - the misinformed n00b*...
*Knows nothing really, procededs to advise everyone on what he has read as being right, but explains it wrong and refuses to belive any differant.
Turned my community from a small group of hardcore overclockers, modders & tweakers who tried and tested fresh ideas into a mass hell-hole of people with basic questions, basic problems and really bad ideas that just wouldn't work in real life...

Still... It's one of the only mags out there trying to cover this world, for that i should be happy... Just wish people would wise up a bit...

*sigh*


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Postby G.O.A.T on Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:09 am

Ace of Spades wrote:AGP will be here for a few more years.

We still havent reached the limits of AGP, i feel we need to hit these limits before we upgrade or take PCI - E as a serious new Graphics Port.
At the moment it is being used as a gimmic. We can still run uber systems on an AGP motherboard.
Yes PCI-E is fast, you can even get boards with PCI-E but not the 16x port which means you can use AGP.

And also know we have Boards that can take DDR 1 & 2, AGP, PCI-E (all forms) and PCI. The motherboard is for you to slowly progress to new technology.

Also a quick mention to SLI, This was first used on good old PCI slots wiv Voodo cards, cant remeber the name it had tho. But this was the orignal SLI setup. With AGP we could not have this or maybe it wasnt looked into.

Now with PCI-E we can have SLI agen, not really sure it gnna be good, once ur Gfx getting to behind your gnna buy a new one, not add another and hope to get a slight imporvment.

So for your project just nick any of my stuff.

If your into computing i would get "Custom PC" mag, full of gr8 new hardware comming out, shame i cant b assed to get it from town ne more lol.
Good mag tho, i reccomend.


I have yet to find a print magazine that contains anywhere near the depth of information that I like but there you are. Appart from that I'd have to agree with everything else. It's worth remembering that these new interfaces mean bugger all for the short term exept us spending more money for add in cards that support them.

The additional benfit comes a little down the line. The bandwidth is two way which could allow for additional processing to be done on the graphics card. This could be useful for anything that uses a large amount of upstream data such as onboard physics processing or more geometry processing. Also, In addition to SLI you can in thory run two completely different graphics cards. Imagine having an Nvidia and an ATI in the same machine running at the same time. pretty cool.

Another feature of AGP express is hot swapablility. The ability to install the card while the comptuer is running is certainly something I like, although most others probably woun't care.

PCI express is a point to point interface where the old PCI shared a 66Mhz bus amongst all peripherals. This usually wasn't a problem with one or two cards but often machines with a large amount of high bandwith cards (such as RAID controllers) could fully saturate the bus. The new system gives each device its own channel solving thsi problem.


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Postby Ace of Spades on Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:11 pm

You may diss Custom PC, but they have a lot of useful benchmarks from TFT's to CPU's.

They do also show OVERCLOCKERS decent knew hardware to cool their hardware. Any way its the best Mag i have seen for hardware, except for the internet.
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Postby Little_Devil on Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:09 pm

Ace of Spades wrote:Also a quick mention to SLI, This was first used on good old PCI slots wiv Voodo cards, cant remeber the name it had tho. But this was the orignal SLI setup. With AGP we could not have this or maybe it wasnt looked into.

Now with PCI-E we can have SLI agen, not really sure it gnna be good, once ur Gfx getting to behind your gnna buy a new one, not add another and hope to get a slight imporvment.


Err missed the point here I think.
SLI was an interface between two graphics cards so that they could share different parts of the same data and act as a single unit :roll:
G.O.A.T. just about got it.
The bandwidth is two way which could allow for additional processing to be done on the graphics card.

Or between GFx cards.
Why would you actually need any type of aditions, such as a type of SLI, when you have this type of potential.
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Postby Junglist on Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:37 am

Ace of Spades wrote:You may diss Custom PC

Why thank you,

CPC is a good starting point for some people, but i wouldn't take it as gospel. They don't tend to go for GOOD cooling setups btw, they go for easy to set up kits, not GOOD ones. Not once have i seen, say a DangerDen water-cooling system (best of the best) or a Mountain-Mods case or even the use of futuremark benchmarks to show comparison between products. Instead they made their own custom pc benchmark (which is blatently weighted towards Intel systems) and other benchmarks which they recorded (instead of a universal benchmark that everyone can easily compare between differant sources) so that the reader only has one point of view, their point of veiw. Their point of veiw may tend to sway in the direction of the company that has just given them some freebies or one that sponsers their mag (scan, overclockers uk, order247 etc etc) so how reliable can that be?

Check out sites like xtremesystems.org, xtremeresources.com, extremeprometeia.com, bit-tech.net and all the other site like them if you want to find out whats what in the custom pc world, you'll soon start to realise just how plastic CPC really is.

It saddens me that this is the main modding mag out there. Well, compared to the other ONE, it does seem a better buy i suppose..
---------------------------------------------------------

Back on topic, heres a quick comparison of bandwith,

PCI 132 MB/s
AGP 8X 2,100 MB/s
PCI Express 1x 250 [500]* MB/s
PCI Express 2x 500 [1000]* MB/s
PCI Express 4x 1000 [2000]* MB/s
PCI Express 8x 2000 [4000]* MB/s
PCI Express 16x 4000 [8000]* MB/s
PCI Express 32x 8000 [16000]* MB/s

* Since PCI Express is a serial based technology - data can be sent over the bus in two directions.. Normal PCI is Parallel and all data goes in one direction around the loop. Each 1x lane in PCI Express can transmit in both directions. ie, PCI-E 1x = 250MB/s in 1 direction or 500MB/s in 2 directions. Hope this makes sense, im kinda rushing it cos i want to go play CS:S!!


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Postby Ace of Spades on Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:19 am

Atleast CPC are trying.
How many other Mags u know out there that do that shit. PLus you can download their benchmark and use that. They dont use other one's liek 3D Mark or nethin liek that as they have been known to up Nvidia or AMD.

Personally i think its a good mag, havent read it recently but one of the best PC enthuiast mag's out there.
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