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HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:51 pm
by Xerxes
Hello folks,

I'll keep this brief - my main PC, which I loved, adored and abused for over 4 years, has finally given up the ghost. I'm in the market to put a new computer together but a) have been out of the game for a while and b) am not up to date on the best combinations of hardware now.

I need some help!

I've got a budget of ~£900 to build a new computer from components that needs to include:
  • Case (preferably Lian-Li)
  • Motherboard (preferably ROG)
  • CPU
  • Graphics card
  • PSU

All other peripherals and HDDs I'll take from my existing tower as there's nothing wrong with them. I'm also unfussy about whether to go with ATI/AMD or Intel/NVidia. The rate things are going I'd rather move from my loyalty with ATI/AMD to Intel and Nvidia for longevity, support and basic power. I'm also probably buying from Scan.co.uk as I've never had any issues with them and the last time I was buying high cost items they were bending over backwards to help (Thanks Jit!).

Anyone able to help me? <3

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:21 am
by Deathtaker27
Hey Xerxes,

I will look into this later, but a couple questions:

Whats your monitor resolution and connections
Are you dual monitoring
Will you overclock or not?

DT

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:11 pm
by Xerxes
Hi Jason,

I'll be using a single 24" 1920x1080 monitor through either DVI or HDMI. I may go for a second screen in the future but I'll cross that bridge if I come to it. I probably won't be overclocking but good to have the option to if I want it. :)

Thanks!

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:35 am
by RMS
If you can, i suggest you to choose a 120 hz monitor. It's incredibely confortable for the eyes, as it reduces the visual lag/latency you have with 60hz monitors. I was stupefied when i tried one for the first time

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:34 am
by Shuriken
I'd consider this

Image

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:16 am
by Unspecified
You can probably save some money by dropping to a lower wattage PSU - a single GFX card system shouldn't need anything like 1000W. ~650-750W would be fine. Modular is nice though for cable management.

Love ASUS motherboards and that looks like a nice CPU.

I don't really know whats the best GFX at the moment, i just grabbed a mid range ASUS nvidia when my last on died because they haven't let me down before.

Cases are a pretty subjective choice, so I have no idea what you would like.

Xerxes - you haven't mentioned if you need RAM or not?

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:03 am
by sNaKeBiTe
Honestly, I wouldn't bother with this Republic of Gamers stuff. I think it's just a marketing ruse and you can save a couple of bucks by going with a normal mainboard. Yes, they might overclock a little bit better so you can get the last 100 MHz out of your CPU, but since you are not really thinking about that, I'd save the money and invest it in something else.
I have an ASRock Z77 Extreme4 which I didn't have any problems with yet. All the other brands also have something in that pricerange (For example Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H).

If you want to overclock you are going to need an aftermarket cooler. Even if you don't really know yet if you want to overclock (It's really easy nowadays) I'd buy one now, since it's often a real hassle to install one in a complete system without pulling the motherboard.

I'd also go with a much smaller (and cheaper) PSU since your system probably won't pull more than 500W. You can calculate how big of power supply you need on this website: http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine
You should also consider that the efficiency on small loads goes down, so oversizing your PSU not only costs you more money on the purchase, but also in energy as it probably won't be as efficient as a smaller PSU.

I'd save some of this money and invest it in an SSD if you don't already have one. It doesn't make a performance difference in games, but everything else is just so much smoother and quicker.

Here's what I'd buy: (Prices are in Euros and probably a little lower than in that online shop)
Intel Core i5-3570K, 4x 3.40GHz, boxed 198,56€
Corsair XMS3 DIMM Kit 8GB PC3-12800U CL9-9-9-24 (DDR3-1600) 30,61€
Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970, 3GB GDDR5, DVI, HDMI, 2x Mini DisplayPort (GV-R797OC-3GD) 341,65€
Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H 115,70€
Thermalright HR-02 Macho Rev. A (BW) 35,76€
Some Lian Li case ~ 100€
be quiet! Pure Power L8-CM 630W ATX 2.3 (L8-CM-630W/BN182) 69,95€
Samsung SSD 830 Series 256GB 148,96€
========================================= 1041,19€ --> 838,85£ (plus shipping)


Alternatives:
Samsung SSD 830 Series 128GB 82,50 € (If you don't need/want 256GB)
Palit GeForce GTX 670 JetStream, 2GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort (NE5X67001042J) 337,55€ (If you want nvidia instead of amd or want to use 3D)
Fractal Design Define R4 97,87€ (I never had Lian Li and I don't even know a good case from them, but I have a Fractal Design Define R3 and it's just awesome. The successor R4 just came out with some minor tweaks. If you like a plain design and want your computer quiet, I'd reccomend this case)#

edit:// You might need to change the cooler depending of the case you choose since the HR-02 needs quite a lot of clearance. I know that it works with a Define R3 since that's what I'm using. R4 is even wider so I'd assume it works with that one too.

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:15 pm
by Xerxes
RMS, for now I'm just worried about the tower and having something to use. I'll consider a 120Hz screen in the future though. Unspec, you're right, I did omit RAM from the original spec. :)

Shuriken, Snakebite, thank you ever so much for taking the time to spec those up, I'll take a good gander at those tomorrow. <3

With regards to CPU I have to admit that the raw power of those is only marginally better than the AMD Phenom II I currently have; The new FX-8 CPUs (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-fx-8 ... 25w-retail) look to be a much better deal with over double the raw speed...?

I already have an SSD and other HDDs so I won't be buying anything in that respect until I need some more overhead. :)

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:16 am
by Ragonz
I would consider the below

Image

As spec has correctly stated you dont need anything stupid for a single or even dual card set up, my pc is a testament to this, Core I7 (old power hungry one), 1 SSD, 4 HDD's, 2 Watercooling systems, 2 7770's and a 5870 running off a single 750W psu

The gfx card in there is more than enough to run pretty much everything you could want on decent graphics
plenty of ram
decent motherboard that can overclock and has very useful tools included so its simple to do so
Core I7 for the latest and greatest cpu power

I have specifically left out a case as thats user opinion as to what they want. i would however suggest a cheaper alternative, Lian Li cases are very good but why do you need one?
space? no, wheels? no buy a lanboard, Build quality? no you can get just as good for half the price. Honestly have a look around

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:47 am
by sNaKeBiTe
Xerxes wrote:With regards to CPU I have to admit that the raw power of those is only marginally better than the AMD Phenom II I currently have; The new FX-8 CPUs (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-fx-8 ... 25w-retail) look to be a much better deal with over double the raw speed...?


Nope, AMD MHz/cores aren't equal to Intel MHz/cores. The FX-8350 (Their new flagship that just came out a few days ago) is only on par with intel when it comes to stuff like video encoding where the software can make use of all these cores. When it comes to anything else, especially games, Intel still blows AMD out of the water. And that's before you overclock them. From what I'm hearing Intel chips are still overclocking better than Piledriver. They also use quite a lot more power (Around 80+% more!).

Sadly, my advice is still the same: Avoid the AMD-FX-series like the plague. (If you are not on a tight budget)

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:42 am
by coldandtired
1000W PSU! It's like having your kettle on all day :)

My case has a proprietary 350W one that seems to be still going strong despite powering three hard drives and the rest of it!

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:07 pm
by ApacheFlame
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1 ... usion.html

and

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/fx-8350-v ... 50-18.html

Tom's hardware review is pretty in depth. TL;DR: i5 is better in the real world at the moment.

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:52 pm
by lambnut
A quick question from me. When chosing the PSU, if you chose a 1000w versus a 500w for example, and your computer only need 300-400w. Will the temperature get higher or lower with a 1000w compared to a 500w? Or let say if its close to the need of 500w.

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:04 pm
by sNaKeBiTe
lambnut wrote:A quick question from me. When chosing the PSU, if you chose a 1000w versus a 500w for example, and your computer only need 300-400w. Will the temperature get higher or lower with a 1000w compared to a 500w? Or let say if its close to the need of 500w.


The heat which the PSU puts out is determined by the efficiency and the load. If you have a 500W load and a PSU with 90% efficiency, around 50W are "wasted" in heat.
Often a 1000W power supply has a higher efficiency as a 500W PSU (Platinum, gold, etc.), so in theory it would put out less heat than the 500W. But these efficiency ratings vary, depending on the load. If you have a 1000W PSU with a 90% efficiency rating, but your PC is only pulling around 150W, the real efficiency is much worse than 90%. A 500W PSU would probably be better in this scenario.
And don't forget that your PC only needs 300W or 400W under load. I'd guess that the average pc is idle around 80% of the time and only pulls 100W-200W. You can read more about this here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2624/3

If your question was aiming at the noise a PSU makes, I'd suggest you take a look at semi-passive PSU that turn the fan off completely on low loads.

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:30 pm
by Xerxes
Guys, I can't thank you all enough for the assistance with this and clarifying what the better CPUs are, it's been (as you may have gathered) a long time since I've had to get a new PC. :)

Looking at the specs lists provided, I'm considering something closer to what Ragonz suggested as it has the extra overhead of the i7 in there. Perhaps with a more powerful graphics card just for good measure. The budget was only a rough guide, I can spend more if there is a good advantage in doing so.

Regarding cases I want a Lian-Li because I like them, and the last one I bought has been done exactly what I wanted. :)

Just waiting for my pay to come through now...HURRY UP, TIME.

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:49 pm
by Phoenicia
I can see you're budget is a little higher than this, but with this computer you can easily dominate any game that you decide to run.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($219.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($119.98 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($93.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7950 3GB Video Card ($307.55 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT M59 - 001BK ATX Mid Tower Case ($57.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($83.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224BB DVD/CD Writer ($15.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $969.44

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:37 pm
by Duracellbunny
please note that you need a good RAM speed.
the Kingston HX Predator 8GB(2x4GB) DDR3 2133MHz CL11 is a good one to use. Much faster then the basic ddr 3 1600mhz RAM banks.
And you can also deside to get not 1 but 2 gfx cards and run them sli. Wich should be able to get you a better preformance and more balanced.

High value gfx Asus GeForce GTX 660, 2048MB, Assassin's Creed III (costs 211 GBP)
mainboard Asus P9X79 S2011 X79 8xDDR3 ATX
CPU Intel Core i7-3820, 3.60GHz, 10MB, S2011

Prices

GFX 211
Memory 40,58
mainboard 198
CPU 234

total 683,58.

This gives you enough for your PSU and case and probably will b able to get you an ssd vortex 4 sata3 128gb drive also.
This will give you a hell of a machine Running circles around your old system ;)
Just some thoughts

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:40 pm
by Synaphix
Edit before Syn is in troubles D:

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:57 pm
by Duracellbunny
all that trouble for nothing then :( :cry:

Re: HELP ME SPEND MONEY (on a new PC)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:48 pm
by sNaKeBiTe
Duracellbunny wrote:please note that you need a good RAM speed.
the Kingston HX Predator 8GB(2x4GB) DDR3 2133MHz CL11 is a good one to use. Much faster then the basic ddr 3 1600mhz RAM banks.

That might be true for the new AMD APU's if you use the internal graphics core, but it isn't for anything else. You get minimal performance boost in applications like Winrar which rely heavily on RAM, but with other applications it will not make a difference (even games). 1600 MHz RAM is the performance/price sweet spot at the moment. Anything above that is for purpose build machines that do stuff like video encoding 24/7 or high end overclocks.


Even at DDR3-2400 and with fully-optimized primary timings, high-speed RAM offers minimal application performance improvements over DDR3-1600 CAS 9. The strongest case for improved memory performance occurs in WinRAR, with a maximum four-second advantage for the full benchmark (a 6% improvement).
Source: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/bul ... 09-12.html


Duracellbunny wrote:And you can also deside to get not 1 but 2 gfx cards and run them sli. Wich should be able to get you a better preformance and more balanced.

You also get double the energy consumption, double the noise, and sometimes microstutters and driver problems for not even double the performance. In my oppinion it is just not worth the hassle except if you want the last bit of performance and a single GTX680 is not enough for you.

Anyways, this thread is now over a month old and Xerxes probably already made his decision.