#8 Payload

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#8 Payload

Postby exxxie on Fri May 02, 2014 7:09 pm

Payload in TF2 usually consists of attacking and defending. Teams take a turn at pushing the cart and defending against the push. On #8 that just isn't the case on most maps. Generally if blue does well and manages to cap a few points then the map will finish without a change of teams. Often, Red team will just defend the objective without having to take a turn at offence. What this means in practise is people stack Red to get better Kill/Death ratios and dominations without having the pesky chore of pushing the cart on a 32player server.

So what, you might say? Well it gets old quickly facing the same opponents stacking the Red team time after time, balance goes out of the window, one team is constantly playing offence and by the very nature of insta-respawn Payload, at a disadvantage.

Here's how to solve the problem. Extend the timer. Or ensure both teams get a turn on red and blue. Whichever is easier.


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Re: #8 Payload

Postby Binerexis on Sat May 03, 2014 8:33 am

This has been raised in the past. Basically, if you think that people are constantly stacking the same teams, contact an admin. Repeatedly joining RED at the start of every map, for example, is not allowed.
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Re: #8 Payload

Postby Deathtaker27 on Sat May 03, 2014 9:44 am

On the other point made here could we change it from timer based to round based, so that each team get 1 go at attack and defend then its next map?
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Re: #8 Payload

Postby elwenildo on Sat May 03, 2014 1:24 pm

Exxxie mostly is playing when i am online and i am very aware of what it is that he is talking about, so Bin, please join the server around 11-12 at nights and help me sort the problems out :)


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Re: #8 Payload

Postby ApacheFlame on Sat May 03, 2014 1:34 pm

Deathtaker27 wrote:On the other point made here could we change it from timer based to round based, so that each team get 1 go at attack and defend then its next map?

That is not possible with the source engine.
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Re: #8 Payload

Postby Binerexis on Sat May 03, 2014 3:07 pm

elwenildo wrote:Exxxie mostly is playing when i am online and i am very aware of what it is that he is talking about, so Bin, please join the server around 11-12 at nights and help me sort the problems out :)

Will do if I can. Failing that, just grab me on Steam.
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Re: #8 Payload

Postby exxxie on Tue May 06, 2014 7:11 pm

I appreciate the thought behind fixing this issue using admin tools, but lets face it, people will just continue to do it when an admin is not there. Its happening right now on #8

Why can we not just extend the timer by just 5mins*? The timer for upward appears to be 35mins and that ensures both teams get a turn at red and blue. That would fix the whole issue.



*I admit I dont know the payload timer mechanics, this is guesswork.


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Re: #8 Payload

Postby ApacheFlame on Tue May 06, 2014 9:33 pm

This is actually the opposite of what we have heard, that upward goes on forever. The timer should be 20 minutes, but we can extend that if needs be. The reasoning behind the shorter timer than other maps is in the spoiler, if you are interested.

Due to unexpected house decorating I don't have access to my main machine at the moment. I will look into this properly when I get a chance, hopefully by Thursday.

If you are now experiencing the opposite (the map being too short), we may have just pushed it too far the other way. Stacking is a separate issue, which there are several ways to address this, some of which will go against the grain of what we have done in the past. Further details on this in the coming days.



Payload is a tricky one when it comes to map timing. There are two elements, the map time and the round timer. If the map time expires, the map won't change until the end of the round. This means that if the new round starts with little time left on the map timer, it could be a long time before the map changes as every cap point extends the timer.

We were being told that the map was going on too long as despite the map being a nominal 35 minutes, the end of the map was causing it to go on much longer.

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Re: #8 Payload

Postby elwenildo on Tue May 06, 2014 11:53 pm

Omg no, don't change Upward back. It has taken me nearly half a year to get the reduction on Upwards timer done and the players are finally happy about it. It was going on for 4-5 rounds before and now finally it is not, it is working as intended on this very map, on other maps i know it sometimes is not working. I noticed on Barnblitz for example and also Badwater that sometimes there is not enough rounds. How ever what Exxxie wrote about the stacking of red is very true, and i know you guys can't see this, but be sure about that we admins have a ongoing discussion about this problems and ideas about how to solve it.
We do how ever appreciate constructive threads like this with suggestions that might be at help :)


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Re: #8 Payload

Postby Mr.Bloo on Wed May 07, 2014 9:51 pm

Doesnt bother me as much as it did, I have fun in red and blue team. I usually get auto-assigned to blue about 80% of the time, but i play sniper most of the time so I only help with the objectives by snipy snipy ppl like elwenildo away :lol:
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Re: #8 Payload

Postby exxxie on Thu May 08, 2014 9:01 pm

FYI just played pl_upward. Both sides got a turn on red and blue. First blue capped 3 and failed at final. 2nd blue got first only. Total map time played was 29mins.


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Re: #8 Payload

Postby ApacheFlame on Thu May 08, 2014 9:51 pm

Probably the best way of talking about the map time is that it will be AT LEAST 20 minutes, but depends on the length of time each cap takes.
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Re: #8 Payload

Postby exxxie on Sat May 24, 2014 7:10 pm

I guess we're no further along with this issue. I couldn't even find an admin online to complain to when the same people constantly join RED map after map after map. Some even spec-swapping if they get auto-swapped to the other team. I'm certain I don't need to name names but perhaps pointing out that "Repeatedly joining RED at the start of every map, for example, is not allowed." as a MOTD on #8 might help.


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Re: #8 Payload

Postby Slavechild on Sat May 24, 2014 7:16 pm

Exxxie add me on steam, i'm at my PC nearly all day and I don't mind popping into TF2 if needs be.
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Re: #8 Payload

Postby Ger-h on Sat May 24, 2014 7:42 pm

What Slave said. Am always online on steam if theirs a problem.
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Re: #8 Payload

Postby Binerexis on Sat May 24, 2014 9:07 pm

exxxie wrote:I guess we're no further along with this issue. I couldn't even find an admin online to complain to when the same people constantly join RED map after map after map.


If the issue was going on when you posted that, I was online.
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Re: #8 Payload

Postby Baghdad_Bas on Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:54 pm

Exxxie is on the money with his point. He's polite in not naming names but now it's got to a point when you get the same stack on red then people start leaving the map in frustration.

I would normally go to another server but there seems to be a lack of people on the other UKCS maps recently so it's 8 or endless 2Fort, eek!


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Re: #8 Payload

Postby Ger-h on Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:02 pm

Hi,

The times you play #2 is usually full at these times another option then playing endless 2fort or #8.
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Re: #8 Payload

Postby Binerexis on Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:25 pm

Baghdad_Bas wrote:Exxxie is on the money with his point. He's polite in not naming names but now it's got to a point when you get the same stack on red then people start leaving the map in frustration.


Again, you need to tell the admins when this is happening. Contact them in game by putting @ at the start of your message OR PM us on the forum OR grab us on Steam.
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Re: #8 Payload

Postby Snaggle on Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:28 pm

I'm wondering why we can't just report it here. I added an Admin to Steam and I've sent two PMs this evening about stackers on RED, but the Admins were AFK or just not online at the time. I'm not having a go, I understand people play other games or do other things. My point is, if there isn't an Admin at the time it's happening, then why can we not just report them here like we have been doing? I am pretty sure exxxie is on about the same players as I've reported as I've seen him make comments in game about it.

This thread was started over a month ago now and the same stackers have been at it since then. Obviously I have no idea who has reported who and when, but this is getting a little silly now :?


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