Dead servers

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Dead servers

Postby Enigma on Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:14 am

Is there anything going to be done about this? It almost seems that nobody cares about six of your servers being dead. Let's face it, players don't enjoy 32 player mash up anymore. Perhaps changing them to 24 players would work?
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Re: Dead servers

Postby heuji on Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:25 pm

i've said it before, turn one into a jump map server, pretty please. i know i'd frequent it and you can play it solo. i get why you folks don't want MGE and DM servers, even though they're popular, but there is still other popular mods and modes that you could explore. surf, i rarely play it personally, but, it's another thing you can play solo. the list goes on.

i find i hardly play UKCS these days as i only really play #8 for the community, the maps and 32 man just doesn't work for me. 2fort, i'd rather give myself an enema. dustbowl, see 2fort explanation.

as attractive as the vanilla server is to me i can sit there solo for an age and people just don't join, also, the maps need a refresh. yes, i know 'vanilla' is a reference to the old maps aswell as the mode. change that to a more suitable fresh rotation. 24 man, awesome, not only that a lot more maps just work with less players. no instant respawn, awesome, as previous. koth maps, no one seems to like, including myself. payload, you already have a payload server.

tl:dr - while i rarely agree with enigma, usually because he just trolls, he does have a point here. there's definitely enough of a fanbase to populate more than 2 servers at a time, and, the admins could resolve this by more alternate server support and revamping the existing servers as clearly they aren't working. while players are dropping away from TF2, valve have, and are going to, support TF2 more. don't be fooled by the 'dead game' idiots. with i55 appraoching you have the perfect oppertunity to give the UKCS TF2 community a much needed boost.
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Re: Dead servers

Postby Angel on Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:42 pm

I'll point Apache here as he may be able to give you a better response, but I believe I can say that this matter has been discussed by the admin team in recent weeks but more than this I can't say.


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Re: Dead servers

Postby ApacheFlame on Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:55 pm

OK, so 6 of the servers are dead, the two that aren't are 32 player servers, so I don't necessarily buy the argument that 32 player is the problem.

I agree that there is no use having servers sit idle. As you know. There are reasons we don't like using SM for core functionality . The recent gun mettle update broke some of the functionality of a mod which appears to be no longer supported by the dev, which has lead to complaints because of features not being available/ineffective that the community requested.

We are in a catch 22. We either have unpopular servers or are at the mercy of SM, hopefully you can understand why this is a decision we want to consider for a while.

One answer is to copy popular servers. Unfortunately that hasn't worked well in the case of 7, so it would be foolish to expect it to work with 6.

This is not an easy decision, but we are willing to listen to the community. Just understand that we don't want to jump straight to a decision, if we don't think that people will get the quality of experience they expect from UKCS.
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Re: Dead servers

Postby re# Skilgannon on Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:00 pm

have you tried running a server with ETF2L unlock rules and maps?
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Re: Dead servers

Postby heuji on Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:07 pm

ApacheFlame wrote:OK, so 6 of the servers are dead, the two that aren't are 32 player servers, so I don't necessarily buy the argument that 32 player is the problem.

if you're responding to me, 32 man instant definitely isn't the problem. people love it and it is very new player friendly. more targets to spam at and random crits guarantee kills. anything i said refers to the empty servers.
some of the maps regularly played on UKCS have got the general TF2 community a little frustrated however. i've been on some servers where it has been said 'what the hell are we playing this for, this isn't UKCS!' (or words to that effect) before a !rtv has been called moments later. i've also stumbled on quite a few ex-UKCS regulars playing other servers for the very same reason(s) as myself.
i kind of misread what enigma said with regards to 32 man instant when i said he had a point. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

re# Skilgannon wrote:have you tried running a server with ETF2L unlock rules and maps?

i'd love to see this too even if i dont play comp. i doubt this will ever happen, or work, though. most comp players only play pickups or pub DM/MGE so nothing to be gained there, and, random players like to use what they want. class limiting UKCS have never wanted too. no crit nights have never worked in the past either. a CP map server would be cool. they're the only valve servers i have saved. this is purely personal preference and i get its limited appeal.
as for maps played by ETF2L. they only work for 6's for the very reason they're not impossible to push lasts with the lower player count. some even become 'stalematey' when used for highlander. one of my favourite maps CP_Process is pretty tough going even on 24 man. i do watch a bit comp and it is kind of cool to try and emulate some of the high level players moves. so i do get your thinking.
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Re: Dead servers

Postby ApacheFlame on Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:31 am

It was more replying to Enigma, rather than you, heuji.

Maps are something reletively simple to sort. We have a new admin in charge of that and it looks like he has plans to keep me busy with updating maps / altering rotations etc.

After asking for a no crit server, we tried it out a while ago. We got the response that you predicted. It wasnt popular with comp players because it added no value to their game. It had fleeting moments of use, but was less popular than #2 at the time. This says a lot given that #2 was the antithesis, random crits and instant spawn.

Map selection is also tough, as you point out. Something that works really well in some cases will bomb in others.

This obviously isnt a simple fix. One thing that does set us apart is our stance on mods and for better or worse, I don't see that changing drastically. Once you become reliant on a mod (and there are definitely levels of reliance, rather than a binary) then it will come back to bite you in the ass.

Im not here to just shoot everything down that has been suggested, but hopefully a little more transparency on our partis useful. If you think there is a compelling case to try something again, then we can certainly think about it.
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Re: Dead servers

Postby Volderran on Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:04 pm

Might be nice to updated the 2fort extreme to a ctf extreme:)

- ctf_2fort
- ctf_well
- ctf_doublecross
- ctf_sawmill
- ctf_turbine
- ctf_well


I have had fun on the 2fort extreme server in the past, and yes maps like 2fort and turbine can end up into a bit of a lock where no side can seem to push, but they seem to come to an end eventually and in some cases you can have decent rounds on those maps.
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Re: Dead servers

Postby BurritoBazooka on Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:40 pm

I don't see myself as a member (I like to stay drifting), but I play on these servers often and like the community. It's in my interest to see the servers busy.

Does UKCS advertise with the money it gets from donations? How? Does it work? Has it worked in the past?


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Re: Dead servers

Postby heuji on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:34 am

the donations pay for the servers/hosting/broadband etc.
UKCS is not a big company hosting on supported servers, merely community supported self funded servers. the big cheese paid for everything and the admins are just loyal supporters that have been around a while.
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Re: Dead servers

Postby _yog on Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:36 pm

ApacheFlame wrote:We are in a catch 22. We either have unpopular servers or are at the mercy of SM, hopefully you can understand why this is a decision we want to consider for a while.


(full disclosure, I've no idea what SM means)

while I'm not aware of many things I'm just wondering what's the catch ?
Running an empty server because nobody joins or trying to offer new type of game that will hopefully attract people.
If not ? well, it won't change much, empty is still empty. Except I guess that some admins will spend time setting everything up for nothing, sorry for these people.

I'm among the persons that are regular players and that would be very glad to play something else than payload maps. I think I said it before, not because I dislike them, but it is just pity to sum up tf2 to only spam payload maps.
The only thing I care about when I join a server is to have good time. Rank, k/d ratio, points and stuff are really secondary for me, and for the moment I cannot find the same atmosphere I find on ukcs servers so I stick on #8, but it's just pity.

If it has to remain the same, I'd be the happiest person if hoodoo could be kicked out of the loop. 32 players on hoodoo is just mental :)
I used to main scout, but I'm not a comp player and I find very difficult to play scout on 32 players maps due to the high amount of random spammed flying harmful explosive objects. Nowadays, I barely play scout, or only late when #8 gets empty enough to switch back. Having other servers offering other game modes or 24 players only will definitely be attractive for me.
Just my 2 cents
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Re: Dead servers

Postby Enigma on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:16 am

SM stands for SourceMod which nobody decent is going to use anyway. TFTrue is superior in every measurable way, shape or form.
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Re: Dead servers

Postby ApacheFlame on Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:42 pm

Oh really enigma? Tell me how TFTrue handles bans? Or how it would integrate with our current infrastructure? Or how TFtrue is geared towards public (non-competitive style) servers?

The answer is fairly simple. It doesn't. Vanilla server functionality doesn't handle large community set ups well. There are many reasons for this, most notably connecting servers together. SM is present on a lot, nigh on all, privately owned "public" TF2 servers.

I have risen do your low hanging troll bait, but only because you're spouting crap information that someone may take as gospel.

Thanks for your comments yog, I'll make sure the maptesting monkeys read them.
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Re: Dead servers

Postby Enigma on Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:11 am

There were TFTrue pub servers, AnAkIn was running two of them. Bans are handled by AnAkIn's Anti-Cheat. You can use ban list from Source Bans or use your current one. It also has way better cheat detection.
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Re: Dead servers

Postby rgslane the trackpad on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:43 pm

Alright, this is something I feel strongly about so strap in, this might get long.

Enigma wrote: It almost seems that nobody cares about six of your servers being dead.


I'd say this is untrue; I really miss #2 not being entirely dead... though mainly I enjoyed playing with a few ukcs people, whom I've since added to friends and so I don't really have a need to play on UKCS unfortunately. The last server remaining (i used to play on dustbowl #5 when i mained wm1, and i never really played on 2fort) is 32 player and instaspawn iirc (don't quote me on that) which really isn't my thing because it effectively removes certain classes and playstyles from the game. So I'm left to either play on a UKCS I don't enjoy, or find a different chain of servers; it's not that I don't care that no-one plays on #2 or the vanilla ones, but it's that I kind of.. forgot about ukcs. :[

Enigma wrote: Perhaps changing them to 24 players would work?

If the other servers are anything to go by, I don't think this would help.
Since gunmettle, valve servers seem to be the default 24 man server for (semi-) skilled players to be on.


heuji wrote:i've said it before, turn one into a jump map server, pretty please.

This would be great for me, I've actually been looking for a decent jump server to add to my favourites for a while. Ideally it would have some more plugins that the other servers don't, like ammo/health regen or location saving, but hopefully this shouldn't be too much of an issue to implement? I have no idea how hard that sort of thing is really.

heuji wrote:i get why you folks don't want MGE and DM servers

Could someone fill me in?

heuji wrote:i find i hardly play UKCS these days as i only really play #8 for the community, the maps and 32 man just doesn't work for me

Pretty much what I was trying to say.
I'd add that it only ever seems to be badwater, upward, swiftwater and barnblitz; all good maps but have some issues with accommodating 32 players.

ApacheFlame wrote:One answer is to copy popular servers.

Have you tried copying other chains' popular servers? Having a 24/7 badwater/upward server might be a compromise between what your regulars want and filling the servers, perhaps making them 24 man.

heuji wrote:i've also stumbled on quite a few ex-UKCS regulars playing other servers for the very same reason(s) as myself.

you see me a lot more than you realise probably, my name is usually something dumb like "dooooooooogs"

Volderran wrote:Might be nice to updated the 2fort extreme to a ctf extreme:)

Not sure this would be such a good idea: from when I played on this server it seemed really laid back and chatty, not really focussed on the objective. I think changing the maps quite a lot would make players leave and try and find a different 2fort server, because some people don't seem to be familiar with ukcs (e.g. lucasz.kartanas01 typing !unusual, !premium and !rtd in chat) but do seem familiar with 2fort (battlement sniping).
Maybe it's just me who treats 2fort as a messaround map though.

_yog wrote:I'm among the persons that are regular players and that would be very glad to play something else than payload maps.... it is just pity to sum up tf2 to only spam payload maps.

I see it just like only playing on skial hightower; you're missing out on most of the game.

_yog wrote: I'd be the happiest person if hoodoo could be kicked out of the loop.

Hoodoo should not exist

yog wrote: for the moment I cannot find the same atmosphere I find on ukcs servers so I stick on #8, but it's just pity.

I'm probably not meant to advertise other servers obviously, but it is out there. [:

I did write a whole thing here about chunky pasta sauce and a TED talk, but I took it out because who cares about statistics really?, but basically yeah, I agree with yog that the worst thing that could happen if you change the dead servers up a bit is that they stay dead and some admins waste a chunk of time fiddling with their servers. I'd suggest something fun that you can't find via quickplay (that has full functionality when the server's empty!), like jumping (preferably), surf, dodgeball, that football thing, MGE, soap dm, warioware (lol), smash bros....

Thanks for taking the time to reply Apache, we don't say that enough.


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