Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

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Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby gandy on Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:06 pm

This is what valve say in lerp

Code: Select all
The Source netgraph now includes "lerp" indicator which shows the actual interpolation amount (usually 100 msec unless the server or user is forcing non-default settings). The indicator will turn yellow if the server's framerate (actual framerate on the remote machine) drops below this interval. This can be used to figure out why all of the objects in the world are no longer moving smoothly. In addition, the indicator will turn orange if the user or server has tuned the ConVars such that the interpolation amount is less than 2 / updaterate. This indicates that if there is any packet loss (or possibly choke if the choke is occurring for long periods of time due to large packets being sent over a low bandwidth rate setting) that the player will likely see sluggishness in the game.


Now the best way to set your lerp up is, First make sure that you enable net graph in the console.

Next - for this bit there is no complex math just an easy setting.

Set cl_interp to 0 and cl_interp_ratio to 1 and that will auto set up cl_interp to the correct value based on your cl_updaterate

So if you if your updaterate setting is 66 it will give you a value of 0.0151. if the colour you see for lerp in net graph is yellow, orange or red then that is a bad thing and means your hit reg can/could be effected so you need to make sure its white. If it is yellow, orange or red then change cl_interp_ratio to 2 and see how it goes as this will set your interp to 0.03 ( or 30ms for the lerp setting ).

For advanced uses its best to set interp_ratio to 1 and play with the interp setting until it goes white.

As you can see there is a few reasons that valve have stated what the colours mean so when setting your rates, keep the lerp as low as possible while keeping it in the white :)

Now to move on to threads. This is an easy one but i need to enable Hyper Threading on my cpu to test it more but in the launch options for css add this to it -threads n

n = the amount of threads your cpu can handle, an example would be, an i7 920 can run 8 threads where a c2d can run 2 threads, a c2 quad would be 4.
This new launch option allows you to configure how many threads you want the game to use and possible fine tune it a little to get more performance from your cpu and game.

With this new update i must say that i have yet to have issues as my pc is more tuned for another game that is 3 times more demanding and as a result i don't have issues like those that have been reported on server and the steam forums, on maps like lost temple in the water on a full server ( #1 around 60 people ) i get 100+ fps. I might link to the pc tune i did at a later date.

I have been using elmo's pc to try and clear the lag/ping issues and i have only managed to remove most of the lag she had and i do plan to work on the ping as mine will say 35ms but hers will be reporting 70 to 90ms :( but when im done and sorted it all i will post about it.

One test you can do is to check the steam server list when in game and make sure its not updating, if it is then hit the stop refresh button as some people have found that when they have joined a server that the server list is trying to do an update :?

Anyway happy gaming and hope you all get lots of frags and you dont let the current css issues put you off to much.

gandy :)
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby Tsenister on Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:11 pm

Cheers Gandy. I hope the rest of the server who complain about "hit reg" read this.
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby melipone on Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:31 pm

I do think interp is part of the problem (people still using 0.01 in their autoexec), but there is some weird lag that seems to depend on the map..some maps are nearly unplayable now like de_rush where I can go down to 10 updates /s compared to the usual 50-66. Then you get people warping around all over, impossible to shoot. Its not fps on my end, its either some optimizations that need doing to some maps or some issue with the update, or maybe the server. Game feels kind of choppy at times too even if updates show over 40.

Overall tho I actually kinda like the update. If you go on a dm server you can feel the difference between now and before in terms of reg. Feels smoother and you know when shots will connect. You don't leed shots and shoot infront of people like before..the hitbox is slightly behind where you see the model I think. You can get shot ages after going behind corners tho. This is on a server with locked rates at 66/66 and just d2, 10v10 or so reg might be better there

I'm using 50ms lerp now to stay on the safe side and max rates. For multi-threading I think you want the command mat_queue_mode "2" as well. Might make it unstable but its ok for me


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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby gandy on Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:24 pm

the lag is the lag that is caused by the update and client side issues, some maps are better than others even on #1. I do have a list of maps that cause an issue for players and they should be removed until valve fix the map performance imo.

My post is directed at hit reg only and if people now dont optimise the setting that improves it and gives them a good indication of that it is working for them based on there hardware then they should go play some tetris or something and give up css. Sadly this is a setting that cant be forced server side as it will cause issues for those on low spec machines.

Also you really need to check up on this command mat_queue_mode "2" before you even try saying anything about it as it will not tell css to use 8 or 4 threads as my post is directed at controlling the amount of threads css uses as that command only acts at its basic level as an on/off switch at the end of the day.

well like most people who wont set the lerp correctly i dont expect to see you moan about hit reg if you decide to use a high value setting as you are giving everyone who uses a lower setting an advantage over you. lerp has a direct effect on hit boxes which is why you dont aim for the model and i do to get kills :P
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby melipone on Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:35 pm

Sure I was just adding that as an option as it will be beneficial if you also set the threads in launch options, as long as the system remains stable. Some have seen a performance drop with it but most things have read were positive except for stability which might affect some Theres some other multi-threading commands you can put in the autoexec too but I just use the mat_queue_mode as its a bit hit and miss with the stability. Mat_queue_mode defaults to 1 or -1 I think, even with multi-core enabled in the options. It was one of those experimental commands that people say help..I just leave it at 2

You can have your 20ms or so advantage btw, I know you need it :p . Seriously tho personally if I put it much lower than 50ms I get some signs of extrapolation on the netgraph (orange bits at the bottom) and the lerp can flash yellow sometimes. I've just put it at 50 and will forget about it. If hitboxes lag at 50ms, 30 or whatever won't make a huge difference imo, you just get used to shooting at the right place

BTW i'm not sure if you were referring to the minimum rates a bit there, but I still think they should be higher than 30 :D I mean who plays css with 30 fps nowadays. Having a fps like that will be the biggest problem rather than lag, and I don't see any problems on dm servers with max rates. Anyway if we never actually try it out we won't know for sure either way. Just my opinion tho..40/40 wouldn't hurt anyone as a test imo. Some servers a pretty bad with forced rates, getting the sweet spot is the hard bit. 30 is a little on the low side for a 66 tic game tho i think


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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby Flawless on Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:57 pm

mat_queue_mode 2 isn't experimental any longer, or shouldn't be. You can enable multicore rendering from the game options. Here is a handy bind if you want to switch between the two modes. Throw it in your autoexec.

Code: Select all
alias queue       "queue1"
alias queue0       "mat_queue_mode -1; say_team <Q1> ; alias queue queue1"
alias queue1       "mat_queue_mode 2; say_team <Q2>; alias queue queue0"


then bind queue to something, like

Code: Select all
bind f10 queue
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby Tsenister on Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:54 am

Well for me now. I certain maps I've binded rates to lower on maps like desert atrocity and parthenon and pjut them back up again on cbble, 3rd street and thc... It just works. I think there should be a link on UKCS to this thread as there is still copious amounts of whine and moan about "hit reg".
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Re: Understanding lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby KAL-EL on Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:59 pm

Im very impressed with the new update i have the latest i7 and im running full graphics and gett in 299fps 90% of the maps, it drops on the normal choke points to about 180-200fps.
as for the lerp settings, ive had 50mb fiber optic installed for past few months and its really stable. I have tried cl_interp 0 cl_interp_ratio 1 & cl_interp all 0. And as gandy says that sets me at 15 lerp, which is white for most of the map but then flickers to yellow at major fire fights. I have defiantly got better reg, than i used to before the update. Ive not played with the lerp settings as yet ie keeping the lerp setting to white at all times. But for me the update have really helped me out game wise and reg wise. So all i need to do is play the game more and get used to recoil again :)
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby Aceo on Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:36 pm

I'm still getting awful lag after doing these tweaks, was able to log on and take a video of the problem:
(it got this bad after doing what was said in original post)
http://www.xfire.com/video/2f6011/


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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby RubbeR on Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:00 pm

Aceo wrote:I'm still getting awful lag after doing these tweaks, was able to log on and take a video of the problem:
(it got this bad after doing what was said in original post)
http://www.xfire.com/video/2f6011/


check net_graph 3 for choke, looks like it could be a lot of choke.
check your rate, cause ukcs has so many players you want this 50k or higher.
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Re: Understanding lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby Tsenister on Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:06 pm

KAL-EL wrote:Im very impressed with the new update i have the latest i7 and im running full graphics and gett in 299fps 90% of the maps, it drops on the normal choke points to about 180-200fps.
as for the lerp settings, ive had 50mb fiber optic installed for past few months and its really stable. I have tried cl_interp 0 cl_interp_ratio 1 & cl_interp all 0. And as gandy says that sets me at 15 lerp, which is white for most of the map but then flickers to yellow at major fire fights. I have defiantly got better reg, than i used to before the update. Ive not played with the lerp settings as yet ie keeping the lerp setting to white at all times. But for me the update have really helped me out game wise and reg wise. So all i need to do is play the game more and get used to recoil again :)


Man. I'd never thought I'd see the day when you we're happy with CSS lol but in any case I do think that this update has benefited people with faster computers/ better connections more than those with shite ones.
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby iplaya on Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:10 pm

Its weird, 2 months ago i was on tiscali getitn ping about 40, moved to sky and gettin about 50 ish. Since update im constantly 85+ and spiking regularly to 150+ ... cant hit a dam thing
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby UK_sniper on Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:19 pm

no change there then! :cheers:
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby Aceo on Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:49 am

RubbeR wrote:
Aceo wrote:I'm still getting awful lag after doing these tweaks, was able to log on and take a video of the problem:
(it got this bad after doing what was said in original post)
http://www.xfire.com/video/2f6011/


check net_graph 3 for choke, looks like it could be a lot of choke.
check your rate, cause ukcs has so many players you want this 50k or higher.


Has rate changed this much with the update? Before it 20-30k was enough for all servers :S.


edit: After upping the rate and using net_graph 3 there is no choke that's causing the issue. However, the bars in net_graph 3 go awfully high. No idea what these mean though.
Edit2: By upping rates to 70-75k I've fixed the stutters and lag...just seems a little high compared to pre-update.

Last edited by Aceo on Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby meyenburg on Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:23 am

I srsly cant fix my lag in anyway :(
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby GraVen7o on Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:02 am

Hello All.

After update i delete my old config.
With my new config Css runs fine.
no lag, better performance. (ping 50, fps 80)

MyConfig:

rate 100000
cl_cmdrate 66
cl_updaterate 66
cl_crosshairscale 1500
net_graph 1
net_graphpos 1
cl_interp 0
cl_interp_ratio 1
cl_show_achievement_popups 0
cl_disablehtmlmotd 1
cl_disablefreezecame 1
cl_cloud_settings 0



thats all u need...

try r_3dsky 0 for better performance on "old" systems.


My System:
IntelDualCore@3,2Ghz
3GB Ram
Gforce9500/512mb / ScreenResulotion in Css: 1680x1050
Network: 32Down/2up CableGermany

:)


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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby kuma on Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:50 pm

Lagging really bad and people warping/jerking all over the place so I wont be back on till valve fix it
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby Azzy on Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:36 am

Have you tried playing with the settings Kummy?
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby kuma on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:43 am

Azzy wrote:Have you tried playing with the settings Kummy?

Yea got my lerp down to 35 and still white using cl_interp thingy but cba to play around with my rates as whats the point of releasing an update that cant run fine with default settings.
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Re: Understading lerp & getting css to use more or less threads

Postby Mike on Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:23 pm

Is there a bug where lerp is fixed at 100.0ms and sits constantly on white, regardless of the settings? Mine does this and no matter what I set it stays white at 100.0ms, even when I punch in ridiculous settings just to check they actually do something!

May or may not be relevant: Mac OS X version.


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